I have a friend who shoots (and reloads for) a Savage .22-250. He is getting sub MOA groups at 100 yds but the groups open up to 5" and more at 200 yds. I believe he is using Reloader 10x and Hornady V-maxs in 35 and 40 grain. I don't have a .22-250 but I'm thinking the bullets are too light and are beginning to loose stability beyond 100 yards. Has anyone had this problem and what was your solution?
.22-250 shoots well at 100 yds but not at 200 yds?
- Thread starter ryalred
- Start date
WSM MAGNUM
New member
I think it`s just him wiggling too much. 
Shane Tuttle
Staff
I have a Savage Model 12 heavy barrel in .22-250. Here are my thoughts:
1. What magnifications does he set for each distance on his scope?
2. Check his twist rate on the barrel. I'm willing to bet it's in the realm of 1:12.5. If so, I think the bullets he is using is actually too light even for that twist rate. The sweet spot for my rifle is Sierra MatchKing 52gr HPBT.
3. Is there any keyholes on his target?
4. I bought Reloder10x recently but haven't had the chance to use it. However, I'd also check the burn rate of this powder compared to the old standbys.
5. How many grains of powder is he using?
6. What OAL does he have set on his loaded rounds?
7. What's the distance from the ogive of the bullet to the lands of the rifling?
These are some questions I'd ask him so we can get a better idea and be able to troubleshoot the problem more effectively.
1. What magnifications does he set for each distance on his scope?
2. Check his twist rate on the barrel. I'm willing to bet it's in the realm of 1:12.5. If so, I think the bullets he is using is actually too light even for that twist rate. The sweet spot for my rifle is Sierra MatchKing 52gr HPBT.
3. Is there any keyholes on his target?
4. I bought Reloder10x recently but haven't had the chance to use it. However, I'd also check the burn rate of this powder compared to the old standbys.
5. How many grains of powder is he using?
6. What OAL does he have set on his loaded rounds?
7. What's the distance from the ogive of the bullet to the lands of the rifling?
These are some questions I'd ask him so we can get a better idea and be able to troubleshoot the problem more effectively.
mrawesome22
New member
Sounds to me that he does not have a scope with enough magnification for 200yd groups, or he is just does not have a solid rest, or he just isn't talented enough. There are many things to consider here.
Jim Watson
New member
Bullets too light, powder fast for the case volume; he is obviously hypnotized by high muzzle velocity claims.
Tuttle is right, the SMK 52 is the place to start looking for short to medium range accuracy with almost any .22 centerfire.
Tuttle is right, the SMK 52 is the place to start looking for short to medium range accuracy with almost any .22 centerfire.
castnblast
New member
Those little bullets are subject to a lot of drift. If it was gusty, even remotely, that will effect. Also, the twist rate & velocity created with those little rockets is too fast. As mentioned before, I'd shoot a min. of 50, and optimally, a 55. I wish my howa had a 1:12 I like Benchmark, and H4895. You don't get the extreme pressures w/ benchmark as some other powders. It actually is a little fast, but I get great results.
I like Benchmark, and H4895. You don't get the extreme pressures w/ benchmark as some other powders. It actually is a little fast, but I get great results.5 inches
Are the bullets shooting key holes, or are the holes in the target slightly larger than caliber??
You should find out the twist rate, but if the holes are caliber sized, then the twist rate is probably not the problem.
I realize a bullet can De-Stabilize pretty fast, but not 5 inches in a distance of 100 yards without some wobbling. Tom.
Are the bullets shooting key holes, or are the holes in the target slightly larger than caliber??
You should find out the twist rate, but if the holes are caliber sized, then the twist rate is probably not the problem.
I realize a bullet can De-Stabilize pretty fast, but not 5 inches in a distance of 100 yards without some wobbling. Tom.
The 35-grain V-Max has a ballistic coefficient of .109. If it moves at 4,100 fps and the zero is set for 100 yards, it will drop more than 2 inches and drift nearly 9 inches with a 10 mph crosswind at 200 yards. If the wind picks up to 25 mph, the drop remains the same but the wind drift will be more than 22 inches.
It looks like you're in Oklahoma, which is plagued by changing wind gusts just like us in Kansas. I suspect that is why your friend's groups are opening up. If he uses a longer, heavier bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient such as the 52-grain A-Max, it will help. It drifts nearly 2 inches at 100 yards with a 10 mph crosswind and only 9.6 inches with a 25-mph wind at 200 yards assuming a velocity of 3700 fps. It will also drop around a half-inch less at 200 with a 100-yard zero.
It looks like you're in Oklahoma, which is plagued by changing wind gusts just like us in Kansas. I suspect that is why your friend's groups are opening up. If he uses a longer, heavier bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient such as the 52-grain A-Max, it will help. It drifts nearly 2 inches at 100 yards with a 10 mph crosswind and only 9.6 inches with a 25-mph wind at 200 yards assuming a velocity of 3700 fps. It will also drop around a half-inch less at 200 with a 100-yard zero.
I wouldn't go as far as sayingthe bullets are to light I shoot 40 gr v-max through my 22-250 at 4200 fps. Have you thought about parallax on the scope? that would make the target drift. Or maybe the scope isn't the right distance from his eye? it doesn' t sound like to me (just my opinion) like it would be the gun or the bullet to be that drastic. it sounds like operator error
Switch to RL15 and 55gr V-Max's.
Still just as deadly, and more so at range, as those zippers he is currently handloading.
Sounds to me as if the lip of the bullets may be peeling and causing drift... or just wind drift.
Either way, use a heavier bullet with more efficient powder for the case, and the issue will fade as a distant memory.
The fastest bullet isn't always the best. It is actually a rare scenario.
Brass will last longer too, as well as the barrel.
Still just as deadly, and more so at range, as those zippers he is currently handloading.
Sounds to me as if the lip of the bullets may be peeling and causing drift... or just wind drift.
Either way, use a heavier bullet with more efficient powder for the case, and the issue will fade as a distant memory.
The fastest bullet isn't always the best. It is actually a rare scenario.
Brass will last longer too, as well as the barrel.
Can we safely assume that the acceptable groups shot at 100 yards are at minimum 5 shot groups? Can we safely assume the 200 yards groups are the same--shot in the same weather conditions? If so, then:
There are lots of reasons a load will open up at 200 yards--most of them have to do with the shooter or the rifle rather than the ammo. That being said your friend is using two components I have found to be conducive to loose grouping--10x and v-max--each rifle will of course shoot components differently.
There are lots of reasons a load will open up at 200 yards--most of them have to do with the shooter or the rifle rather than the ammo. That being said your friend is using two components I have found to be conducive to loose grouping--10x and v-max--each rifle will of course shoot components differently.
ForneyRider
New member
I like H-Varget with 50gr V-max @ ~3850fps.
55gr is another popular grain for .22-250.
Trying to similate Hornady factory ammo.
55gr is another popular grain for .22-250.
Trying to similate Hornady factory ammo.
Gunpowder&Lead
New member
I have excellent results with Bruce Hodgdons vintage load of 38 grains of H-380 and a 52 Grain A-Max. Tried and true for 50+ years(the powder, not the bullet!). My Savage 22-250 w/ a sporter weight barrel will group sub moa on a calm day @ 200 yds using this load. I have tried too many variations to list and this is by far the best for my rig.
castnblast
New member
Remember, pressure is what burns up barrels, so look at the relative pressures- some faster burning powders don't create the extreme pressure due to their burn curve, i.e. benchmark. And no, i don't work for hodgdon...Hell, I can barely spell it...
Jim Watson
New member
This is news to me and probably to the rest of us who have been shooting our best with with those little 52 gr Sierra MatchKing boattails for some years, now. Yes, I HAVE tried the 53 gr flatbase, but I buy the boattails for good reason. And that when the longest range I had was 80 yards.
Really light bullets 35-40gr in the .22-250?
Yes, they can travel at the speed of heat, and can group well at 100, but they are generally only a good short range setup. For ahooting at longer ranges, the 50, 52, 53, & 55 gr bullets of various makes and designs are the best. Heavier like 60 & 63gr often don't stabilize well in the "standard" .22-250 twist.
If you want ultra light bullets to do their best, you need a barrel with a slower twist than usual. If you want exra heavy bullets to do their best, you need a barrel with a faster than usual twist. Look what they are doing with the .223 and bullets of 70 to even 90 grains, using 1 in 9 or 1 in 7" twists! What do you think a .22-250 would do with a twist like that? But if it did, it likely would lose performance with lighter bullets.
Factory .22-250 barrels are generally optimised for the 55gr bullet. very light (40gr) and very heavy (60gr+) may work, but should not be expected to give as good a grouping as the 50-55gr stuff.
Yes, they can travel at the speed of heat, and can group well at 100, but they are generally only a good short range setup. For ahooting at longer ranges, the 50, 52, 53, & 55 gr bullets of various makes and designs are the best. Heavier like 60 & 63gr often don't stabilize well in the "standard" .22-250 twist.
If you want ultra light bullets to do their best, you need a barrel with a slower twist than usual. If you want exra heavy bullets to do their best, you need a barrel with a faster than usual twist. Look what they are doing with the .223 and bullets of 70 to even 90 grains, using 1 in 9 or 1 in 7" twists! What do you think a .22-250 would do with a twist like that? But if it did, it likely would lose performance with lighter bullets.
Factory .22-250 barrels are generally optimised for the 55gr bullet. very light (40gr) and very heavy (60gr+) may work, but should not be expected to give as good a grouping as the 50-55gr stuff.