.22, .223, or 7.62?

[dakota.potts]

I've decided on my next rifle. I want a CZ 452 or the bigger caliber version the 527, probably in Carbine length but maybe American (I have only got to hold a carbine and it felt awesome).

I will be shooting at targets at 195 yards maximum, but probably starting at 50.

I currently have a .308 and it just kicks the crap out of me. After about 10 shots everything hurts and I start to get a flinch and tense up before I fire and most of the times I can't keep a sight picture with it. Also .308 is a dollar or more a round so we hardly ever bring it out to shoot it anymore.

We are thinking about getting into handloading so something that's reloadable would be nice if we got into that. However, I know I can go on gunbroker and find 1,000 rounds of .22 for $170 plus shipping right now.

We have two .22 rifles and I almost yearn for something that's just a little bit more.

I've never shot a .223 or a 7.62 but I am confident I can handle a .223 and just slightly less confident I can handle a 7.62 with no issues. The only reason I really even including the 7.62 is because it's a higher powered round and it's another popular offering for this particular rifle.

I also have the option of getting a .22 with a barrel that swaps out for .17 HMR but I'm not sure what this would do for me other than give me options.

The 527 rifles are a little more expensive.

I'd be shooting standing and from a bench with bags. Other positions like prone or crouching might be in my future.

What do you guys think? Reloading vs. not reloading might be a big final decision for me as it would make it more doable than trying to find and pay for ammo right now.

 

[allaroundhunter]

If you flinch with the .308 then get a .22.

In addition to getting rid of your flinch, it will allow you to work on all of your other fundamentals as well, without breaking the bank.

But $0.17/round is much more than you should pay. I just bought 1,000 rounds for $42...

 

[Rimfire5]

First, I would not stand between you and a new rifle if that is what you want.
Both CZs you mention are good choices.
I have a CZ 527 Varmint in .223 and it is a real tack driver with very little recoil. Even with the Varmint barrel it is light enough to carry.
The CZ 453 has a great reputation for accuracy maybe because it also has the same set trigger as the CZ 527.
The choice of the set trigger or the normal trigger gives you lots of options if you hunt and also shoot from a bench.

Before you give up on your .308, I suggest you consider a couple of things.
What kind of .308 do you have?
Is it a light hunting rifle and does it have a good butt pad?
Light rifles with thin hard butt pads can punish you.

Last Fall when we were testing loads, I shot a light Remington 700 .270 that really punished me.
I shot my light Winchester 70 .270 most of the same day and it didn't.
After a few shots with his rifle, the Remington owner put his rifle down and shot with mine.
Sometimes it depends upon the rifle more than the caliber.

I have a Savage 10 FCP-K .308 with a heavy barrel and a large soft butt pad. I can shoot 50 to 100 rounds from a bench and not notice.

I also have a few rifles with about the same recoil level that I can't shoot 10 rounds without knowing it. They are light and have minimal, hard butt pads.

If you don't want to replace the factory butt pad, either get a slip-on pad to see if it makes any difference or get a Pact shoulder pad. Those options turned even my old 1903 Springfield .30-06 with thin stock and steel butt pad into a comfortable shooter.

 

[Art Eatman]

For the shooting you're talking about, I'd go with the .223. And, get set up for reloading. There is plenty of good used reloading gear around, for much less money than one of these new kits.

I've shot over a hundred rounds in a prairie dog session with my Ruger 77 Mk II in .223, all scrunched up in my pickup cab. (I'm lazy.) The recoil is as close to non-existent as you'd ever want.

As for the .308, take a look at the high-end recoil pads. They work far better than the older ones.

A 7mm08 is just a .308 with ten grains less bullet weight. My 700Ti weighs 6.5 pounds. The pad is good enough that it's painless when using it on my benchrest. A little jolt, yeah, but no big deal.

 

[JD0x0]

I'm going to be the odd guy and suggest something like the 22wmr. IMO most center fire ammo is expensive. You can pretty much expect to pay $1 give or take, per round, of rifle ammo (Unless you get the real low end stuff or milsurp). Pistol ammo tends to be a little cheaper.

.22WMR is more expensive than .22LR but still significantly cheaper than center fire ammo.

Also work on your .308 shooting. The .308 isn't considered a heavy recoiling cartridge. My first center fire was a .270 win and even now I think the kick on it is pretty wimpy compared to what I'd be able to handle. Also I'm a small guy 5'9 125lbs.
22WMR, 17WMR, and 22LR should theoretically make hits out to 300-400 yards. And I've seen it done on a few occasions. The wind is going to be the biggest factor with the low BC bullets.

 

[dakota.potts]

To answer some questions:

the .308 is my dad's rifle. It's a remington 700, I think SPS. It's a light polymer body and has kind of a thin recoil pad. I don't know how well it would work to add one because I have a hard time reaching the trigger as is. I'm also left eye dominant so I am working on making my weak side my strong side. It is, in general, a bit of an unwieldy rifle for me.

I am also a small guy, 5'6 and 110 lbs. More when I am eating more than 2,000 calories a day and sometimes as low as 105 lbs.

I feel like the .223 will have a longer possible range and give me more opportunities in the long run. But, if .22 really is possible to find at 4 or 5 cents a round that's going to be incredibly hard to beat.

 

[seanc]

I second what Rimfire and Art said. Try a good butt pad regardless if you get a new rifle or not. I have used LimbSaver, Pachmayr and Remington pads and highly recommend all of them. That turns the sharp recoil into a gentle shove.

If you still want to get a new rifle, and those are both great rifles, what else do you want to do besides punch holes in paper? If you're just punching holes, get a .22LR .17HMR or .22WMR. You can shoot all day for not much $$.

I'm a fan of the 7.62x39 over .223, but accuracy isn't it's strong point, but either will be easy on the shoulder. Again, if you just want to punch paper, both of those are way more expensive than even the best .22LR.

Lastly, you said you already have a couple of .22LR rifles but want something more. Instead of a new rifle, how about a really good scope for one of your .22s? Give yourself some time behind a good scope and no recoil and get rid of your flinch. You'll fall in love with those .22s and your .308 again. Even if you decide later to buy a newer rifle, that good scope could be used for that too.

 

[dakota.potts]

We're a family of shooters. Dad has a Remington 700, little brother has a Ruger 10/22, mom has a S&W MP15-22.

I am just not a fan of the Ruger, but beyond that, especially with the .22's, somebody is always using theirs and even if we take turns shooting a magazine it's hard to get in the focused time to improve.

So it is time to get a rifle of my own.

I have shot the Ruger with the scope and it is accurate. It was actually 25-50 yard sport clay shooting with the Mp15-22 that made me really think about getting a target rifle.

I have thought about hunting in the past but I would probably get a larger round than .223 if I did that so I would need a different rifle anyways. 7.62 might cut it but I wouldn't want to buy a caliber with no other strong points (for my personal usage) based on something I might maybe one day do.

 

[SerenityNetworks]

I'm late to the post, but I'd suggest a .22WMR, or .204. I have the CZ 452 Military Trainer in .22LR with BRNO peeps on it. Shooting a rabbit with it at 100 yards would not be an issue and I have a very long way to go before I can outshoot the rifle. But although it is my favorite .22, you stated you already have some. Do you really want another? I did, so I got it and don't regret the decision. But I also already had some mid-power rifles. It sounds like you don't.

I also have a CZ527 Varmint in .204 Ruger. She is the queen of my harem. The 527 is not too heavy to tote around all day, the recoil is incredibly light (I can keep the target/animal in the scope's view all the way to impact if I don't have the scope zoomed too high), and it shoots 11/16" groups at 200 yards with factory ammo (Hornady V-Max 32 or 40 gr) when I use a bipod. I am learning to reload. But meanwhile .204 ammo is plentiful, even during this current scare. I love the double set trigger and if I'm going to shoot a center fire rifle this is by far and away my favorite.

As stated above, the .204 (or similar centerfire) is going to cost you a buck a round unless you reload. On the other hand, something like the .204 is going to give you a rifle to fill the power gap between the .22LRs you already have and the .308. That said and as also said above, the .22WMR would also be a very good choice if you want a little more oomph than a .22LR.

That's just my 2 cents,
Andrew

 

[2damnold4this]

I have a CZ452 American that I really like. My daughter is left eye dominant but right handed and she loves to shoot the 452 left handed. It's the most accurate rifle I have and I've killed a 180 lb feral pig with a precise shot behind the ear at 35 yards. I can't recommend the .22lr CZ452 enough.

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

I have a 527 American in .221 Rem Fireball. Recoil is non factor. Half inch groups in awful conditions with not so great hand loads. One hole groups are not unachieavable with one at all with a tuned handload. Also it is a shorter version of the .223 Rem. It seems to be what you described you are looking for. It is over .22 LR by a wide margin.

Though if you are not a reloader get one in .223 Rem. The Fireball ammo is around $1 shot for factory ammo. Though they will shoot the lights out of anything as far as you can see. The factory ammo I tested gave 1/4 inch groups with 5 shots fired in under 3 minuted per group. If you do not handload then .223 would be my suggestion. Though cheapo ammo will not shoot as well as the quality stuff.

 

[NWCP]

Since a 7.62 is a .308 you might want to consider the .223.

 

[Bacteriophage]

Since a 7.62 is a .308 you might want to consider the .223.

She means 7.62x39. Big difference.

OP: If you don't have a .22, get one. The .22 LR is the fundamental practice gun, whether pistol or rifle. Gun companies make their popular pistols in .22 as well as defensive calibers, 1911 .22 LR conversion kits are their own sub-industry, and .22 uppers or whole .22 versions of ARs exist for a reason, not to mention the entire industry built on accessorizing the Ruger 10/22. It's also the best caliber for small game and works fine on varmints as well at short ranges. There is no reason NOT to own a .22 if you have any guns at all. It will save you more on practice ammo than it costs very quickly, and it's the best gun for learning or refining fundamentals.

That said, I'm a fan of the 7.62x39. Especially now, it's cheaper to shoot than .223 and has more power, making it more versatile. The recoil is usually regarded about the same as a .223 to most shooters even though it obviously has to be greater due to physics. Most people just can't tell the difference. Both CZs are great guns, but if you plan to hunt, you'll find the 7.62 more useful because it's fine on predators and enough gun for medium game like deer and even black bear.

If you only plan to shoot varmints, consider one of the .17 rimfires, maybe even the new .17 WSM.

Regardless, get a .22.

 

[Picher]

Everyone needs at least one .22LR! The CZ 455 is a good one, but for best accuracy I pillar-bed them and Locktite the barrels with "Stud and Bearing Mount" to prevent slight movement. (Locktite will release by heating the receiver to about 350*, which doesn't hurt the metal.)

With CCI and Remington plastic-tipped rounds, my .22 WMR groups sub 1/2" at 50 yards and 1" at 100.

That said, I recommend a .223 as being a great range round, especially out to 200 yards. Barrels heat more slowly than larger-capacity rounds and if handloaded, or with match ammo, groups from a good rifle will be under 1/2 MOA.

 

[Agregory1994]

Ii

 

[cookie5]

You will never regret a high quality 22 LR rifle. I have one that can do 1 inch groups at 200 yards with good conditions. The 223 can show good results to 600 yards maybe more, with out the recoil of a 308 . Also more important the 223 will cost half to reload than a 308. You should reload!!!