200gr vs 185gr in 45acp

[L. Boscoe]

I have been shooting 200gr HP and SWC in my 45's with 4.6gr of Winchester 231 behind them.
Recently loaded some 185 HP from Berry's, and got some interesting results.
No discernible difference in accuracy.
Slightly less recoil
occasional failure to eject in the 185's - this from a CZ97 with a 12# recoil spring. Never a failure to eject with the 200's, same powder load in each. Reluctant to go lower in spring power.
Next step get the chrono out and see what fps are.

Should there be any difference in ballistics at less than 25 yards?

 

[TX Nimrod]

FTEs with the 185s are not surprising, your load is a grain below the minimum listed in Hodgdon’s data. You’ll see somewhat lower velocity and energy at 25 yards.




.

 

[44 AMP]

Next step get the chrono out and see what fps are.

If you're cracking 800fps, I'd be amazed.

Your load is a full grain less than the starting load in my Hornady book.

Obviously your gun runs with your load, but if all you change is from 200 to 185bullet and you start getting issues, then I'd say your 200gr load is right on the lower edge of what your gun needs to run reliable. Recoil operated firearms need recoil to operate, and I'd say you've discovered your pistol's minimums.

IF this is what you want to shoot, the gun can be modified to handle it, however modified for really light loads usually means full power loads are too "hot" for the way the gun is now set up, and shooting regular ammo COULD cause damage.

There's no free lunch.

 

[Jim Watson]

Or if you want to shoot 185s, just put in more gunpowder.
Match for power factor, not velocity.

 

[Unclenick]

I don't think you'll see a practical ballistic difference if the accuracy seems the same to you. In my match 1911, I always found the 185-grain lead to group 5 rounds at about 1.4 inches at 25 yards and the 200 (H&G 68 type) to group at about 1". But different things could account for that rather than it being the bullet's fault. If you use the loads in a revolver, you will find the lighter bullet impacts lower because the lighter recoil hasn't raised the muzzle as much before the bullet gets out. For locking self-loaders, though, the barrel and slide usually start moving together and the bullet is out before recoil has begun flipping the gun up in your hand.

Reduced recoil and muzzle flip and not needing better accuracy at 25 yards was why I often used 185's for the timed and rapid phases of a bull's-eye match, but stayed with the 200s for 50 yards. I never had to make a sight adjustment doing that.

The reduced recoil clearly just isn't fully cycling your gun. I think I experimented with springs down to as little as 9 lbs in the 1911, but settled on 11 lbs. It just isn't fussy about loads. I would shoot 185s over about 3.8 grains of Bullseye for the short-range and gallery loads. If you read what the bull's-eye shooters were using in the '50s and '60s, you see as little as 3.2 grains of Bullseye behind 200-grain bullets from H&G 68 molds. All 1911s. Some with 8 lb springs, but not fussy.

Besides the spring, the firmness with which you stand behind the gun will affect the cycling reliability. If you use the common isosceles stance or shoot one-handed, try the Weaver stance or just gripping the gun harder.

 

[L. Boscoe]

Thanks for the replies. I will try the 185 in my 1911, which has a 14# spring.
If it cycles ok, I might change the spring in the CZ. If not, maybe a touch more powder.

 

[FITASC]

I shoot those bullets with 5.0 of 231 and those are a bit too soft and the brass barely goes far

 

[std7mag]

I'm running 185gr Missouri LSWC over 6.4gr of Unique.
But that's out of a 4" barrel with a 24lb spring.

Started loading with Alliant BE86. (It's what was available)
Not a match load by any means, but for a carry load, pretty darn accurate with the Missouri's & 185gr Sierra JHP.

 

[ammo.crafter]

5.5gr of Green dot for V just under 800f/s w Missouri 200gr swc at 12 BHN.
Never had FTF or FTE and use this load of PPC in stock Colt 1911 and groups exceptionally well anywhere from 7yds to 25yds.

 

[IMtheNRA]

185s and 6.0 grains of W-231 cycle my Glock 21 and 21C reliably. Your load is waaaay too light. I doubt you'd see a POI shift at 25 yards.

 

[emissary1911]

boscoe, your load is exactly wat Im shooting in my Springfield loaded, I am running a 12 lb spring in it and I shoot the Missouri 200 RNFPs and they shoot like a dream at 25yrds. Whats fun is watching the bullet go down range !BTW this is my load just for fun! Now for accuracy I up the charge to around 5.2grs!

 

[L. Boscoe]

It continues to amaze me the differences different shooters have with similar
loads and bullets, although from different guns. For those who think 4.6 is way too light, some thought 4.0 would not drive the bullet out of the barrel-they shot just fine out of 3 different 45's, although they needed a really light recoil spring.
I will make a serious effort next week to chrono some different loads, just
for my own knowledge.

 

[L. Boscoe]

did not have time for the chrono, but upping the powder to 4.8 from 4.6 gr of
231 solved the problem. Baer and Tanfoglio both shot about 25 rounds of the 4.8 each with zero malfunctions. The Baer has a 14# spring, the Tan 16, near as I can remember.