1917 S&W questions

[MosinM38]

Hi!
First. I am gonna introduce myself.
My name is Grant. I live in Montana and am (Only) 16. But A proud gun owner just the same

Ok Next I have a few S&W 1917 questions. I just got it (Well dad did) from a pawn shop for $430. Undoubtably a couple are stupid But I couldn't find the answer anywhere else.

#1. I know you can fire .45 ACP's in it without moon(Or half moon) clips. But nowhere have I seen this question . Does it affect accuracy at all? I don't THINK it should. But I was wanting to know before we checked for accuracy.

#2. Do most S&W 1917's have nice triggers on them? Mine feels like someone went into it and did a trigger job (I know they haven't).

I am asking because before I decide to keep it and use it I may leave it the way it is and use it for "Trading material".

I know 1917 "US Property" revolvers in decent shape are pretty common. But this one has NOT been reblued. And it easily 95%(I am guessing 98%. Only a light touch of bluing gone from the tip of the barrel). The only thing marring it from being a perfect gun is a deep scratch on the cylinder and a light (Less than 1/10" big) rust spot on the barrel. It has probably had less than 20 rounds through it.

It is in such good shape that I hate using it. But if a good trigger was usual on S&W's I would trade this one off and look for a "Beater" 45.

Thanks

P.S. Nice forum. I have been reading for about a month but finally decided to register

 

[Cowart]

#1. I know you can fire .45 ACP's in it without moon(Or half moon) clips. But nowhere have I seen this question . Does it affect accuracy at all?

Theoretically, you should get slightly better accuracy using a clip, because it gives better support for the cartridge. This gives the most consistent ignition possible. YMMV

The clips are worth while just for the ease of reloading, IMAO.

#2. Do most S&W 1917's have nice triggers on them? Mine feels like someone went into it and did a trigger job

Yes, they were hand-fitted at the factory by highly skilled grizzled old S&W veteran employees. Unfortunately, those guys are all gone now...

 

[BikerRN]

If Iwas you I would keep the gun and shoot it sparingly.
I wish I had now what I foolishly traded away when I was your age. Those 1917's won't be around forever, and the "US Propert" stamp makes it even more valuable.
This is a gun to keep and pass on to your Grandchildren, a long ways off.

Biker

 

[Jim Watson]

A recent magazine article found the older guns, Models 1917 - 1950 to be less accurate than the newer guns, 625 series, due to cylinder throat dimensions. But the late model stainless guns were sometimes subject to misfire if loaded without a clip. The old ones just shot every time.

 

[MosinM38]

Ok thanks for the great advice

I am thinking I will keep it and shoot every now and then. (No riding around in a holster though ). I got other guns for packing aand this was more of a "I love those guns" type of buy

I will admit right now I have 1 tough problem. I got a weakness for old Smiths. The hand ejectors and the like. BUT.. They will be out of my price range when I am earning a GOOD wage (Much less now) I jumped when I saw a smith like this one for under $500.

I am gonna wait. A local gunshop will be getting in some moon-clips mid next week and until then I am gonna hold off firing it.

P.S. I almost forgot. One MAJOR thing I remembered is I am gonna get a de-mooner From what I hear I REALLY need one.

 

[44and45]

Welcome new gunny, and a great way to get started with a 1917 S&W.

Recomend using full moon clips, less hassle.

Also recomend the mooner and demooner shown in my picture.

Enjoy yourself in your firearms pursuits.

Jim

w1lp@yahoo.com

 

[MosinM38]

Hey thanks!

What kind is it? I don't remember seeing one like that.
I have only seen these in my searches (But I only looked on Gunbroker and Ebay before they went all crazy).

Thanks for the tips though

And yes. I am enjoying my firearms pursuits My first "Fun gun" was a Mosin-Nagant M38 and That thing is a blast... Actually I am getting to where I enjoy "Fun guns" more than ones that shoot tight groups. Ammo that is 1/2 the price sortof appeals to me.

 

[rxrick]

A key think to keep in mind is that the lockwork on those 1917s doesn't have the hammer block safety. They shouldn't be carried with a live round under the hammer unless you are using it at the range.

Rick

 

[Sgt127]

By the way, if nobody mentioned it, you got a really good deal on that old gun if its in the condition you described. Take a few pictures, go join the www.smith-wessonforum.com and show off a little. I think I got my first big bore handgun at 16. A 6" S&W Model 27. And, I still have it, with its presentation case and receipt under the lid. That was 31 years ago (sigh) and, I'm still gathering strays. You will never go wrong with a collection of Smith revolvers. And, if your Dad ever makes it out to Texas, I would like to thank him for raising you right and buy him a beer. (If you wait a couple years, I'll buy you one too)

 

[DeathRodent]

The plastic moon clips don't need a tool and a cheap.

 

[Webleymkv]

You can fire without full-moon clips in S&W 1917's but a small number of Colt 1917's simply had their cylinder bored straight through. Also, you can fire and properly extract ammunition without moon clips if you use .45 Auto-Rim ammunition. It is a bit scarce and expensive but if you're a reloader (which you should be) it is rather easy to load and takes all the same equipment and components as .45 ACP with the exception for the shellholder.

 

[Richard]

MosinM38,

"#1. I know you can fire .45 ACP's in it without moon(Or half moon) clips. But nowhere have I seen this question . Does it affect accuracy at all? I don't THINK it should. But I was wanting to know before we checked for accuracy.

#2. Do most S&W 1917's have nice triggers on them? Mine feels like someone went into it and did a trigger job (I know they haven't).

I am asking because before I decide to keep it and use it I may leave it the way it is and use it for "Trading material".

I know 1917 "US Property" revolvers in decent shape are pretty common. But this one has NOT been reblued. And it easily 95%(I am guessing 98%. Only a light touch of bluing gone from the tip of the barrel). The only thing marring it from being a perfect gun is a deep scratch on the cylinder and a light (Less than 1/10" big) rust spot on the barrel. It has probably had less than 20 rounds through it.

It is in such good shape that I hate using it. But if a good trigger was usual on S&W's I would trade this one off and look for a "Beater" 45."

#1, I prefer two round clips for use with the 45acp. Why? They are easy to load, unload, and they make for an even use of a 50 round box of ammo

#2, 1917s have great triggers but long hammer falls compared to newer S&W revolvers.

If this revolver is 95%, it is not a beater and it should be shot but not used as a carry gun. Yes, it is worth a lot more than your dad paid for it, make no alterations and it will go up in value. Lastly, 1917s have shallow lands and grooves and this may effect long range accuracy. Cherish your 1917 as you have a keeper.

Regards,

Richard

 

[BillCA]

MosinM38,

Welcome to the forum! You started off well by purchasing that M1917 revolver. Pictures would be appreciated by all, if possible.

Most of the specimens I've seen have had very nice triggers. The ones that were fired a lot seem to have buttery-smooth triggers.

Despite the scratch and spot-rust, the M1917 revolver is sought after by shooters and collectors alike. There is something to those classic lines. S&W has introduced a modern-day version of the gun too.

The caution by rxrick is important. These older S&W's do not incorporate the hammer-block safety. This means that if the gun is dropped on it's hammer with a live round under the hammer, it can potentially fire the round.

For that rust spot, try soaking a cleaning patch with Kroil penetrating oil and leaving it on the rust overnight. To remove the rust, use a copper Chore-Boy brand pad and lightly rub the rust off. It'll probably leave a bare unblued spot on the barrel where the rust was, but that can be covered using either a good oil or Flitz gun wax.

For a moonclip tool, the one that goes to the range with me is the Ranch brand full moon clip extractor.

I've had good luck with Ranch, Wilson and Cylinder & Slide brands of full moon clips and half-moon clips. The Cylinder & Slide appear to be the best made with the fewest sharp edges.

More stuff for your M1917 can be found here.

If you decide to part with your 1917, putting it up for sale here or on the Smith & Wesson Forum will get you some considerable interest.

 

[MosinM38]

Ok. thanks again! And STG127 I will tell him

Ain't a real computer genius But I will mess around and see if a couple of photos can be aqquired and put online

As for all the tips. A lot of thanks. The rust spot is so small I probably won't mes with it. And although I NOT ( ) planning on selling it dad has a FFL so that would make transferring easier.

And we are planning on ordering from midway soon anyway so I will include the clips and de-mooner on it

As for reloading. Dad is into it. And I don't mind it, but I am not yet a handloader

 

[Mike Irwin]

No, not all 1917s have good triggers.

It's largely a myth that they were all lovingly hand fitted by men using 100 years of experience.These were high-volume production guns made during war time and war time pressures dictated changes in the manufacturing process.

I've encountered original 1917s that have great triggers, and I've encountered 1917s that have horrible triggers. I have several other handguns of this vintage (My 1917 is a 1938-made Brazilian model) and the triggers are equally hit and miss. Just as they can be today.

There's also a good chance that, depending on when it was made, it was made not under S&W management, but US government management.

When the government let the original contracts for the 1917s they were so underwhelmed by S&W's performance on the contract that the government took control of the plant for the duration of the war and oversaw production.

Skip the metal moon clips and see if you can get some RIMZ polymer moon clips from Beckham products out in California, I believe. Very very good products.

I'm pretty sure that 1917 S&W DO have a hammer block safety, but it is of a different design than the one in use now. It's also prone to becoming hammed by accumulated crud and dried grease. A VERY thorough cleaning should be in order. It's attached to the side plate and activated by the hammer.

 

[MosinM38]

OK.. I got the photo's!!
Not the best in the world but hey Lucky I was even able to get them up!!
This one isn't bad.

Here is the other side. The barrel and cylinder is the same deep blue as the sideplate but for some reason the camera kept "Sparkling" it.

Not the greatest but give a idea of what the gun is like. the one scratch on the cylinder. A very touch gone from the muzzle. And the rust spot isn't actually a SPOT. It looks like you took a ink pen and gently touched the side a couple times.

I never mentioned it because it probably doesn't mean nothing but the serial Number is 22,9XX (Cant remember the last 2).

As for its safety. I am NOT sure but I thought the hand ejectors big selling line was that it was safe to carry with all 6 chambers loaded?

Clips. I am going to get both Polymer and metal clips just to see what i Like.

Thanks for all the advice guys!! I am going to place a order with midway soon and once I get some clips I will let you know how it shoots

 

[Richard]

VERY NICE! Regards, Richard

 

[Hammer It]

As for its safety. I am NOT sure but I thought the hand ejectors big selling line was that it was safe to carry with all 6 chambers loaded?

Hello
That revolver has the Old style hammer block. They deemed a Victory model unsafe during World War II as it was dropped on the flight deck of a Navy ship and Killed a person when it discharged. All Victorys were called back to Springfield Arsenal and a New Hammer block design was Installed and is the same kind they use today with Little changes. A rule of thumb is if it was made during World War II Or before they are not safe with all Chambers loaded and the Old Hammer Block design in Place. The Victory Models that got sent back and repaired all had the Letter V Before their serial numbers to show they had the new design Hammer Block. Here is a Victory with the Old Hammer Block design that was Built during the war but not sent back for the Modification of the hammer block. The new design block goes from the Rebound spring Housing to up under the hammer. This Old styal was shorter as shown. Regards, Hammer It

 

[MosinM38]

OK. I will remember that. Don't want a 230 grn bullet punching through any of my anatomy

 

[Mike Irwin]

"All Victorys were called back to Springfield Arsenal and a New Hammer block design was Installed and is the same kind they use today with Little changes. A rule of thumb is if it was made during World War II Or before they are not safe with all Chambers loaded and the Old Hammer Block design in Place."

No, only about 40,000 of the most recently manufactured Victory models were called back for the refit. Most of the handguns were left in the hands of the troops. It simply wasn't feasible to recall so many handguns that were scattered so widely around the world. That the guns were being used regularly in combat conditions without a single reported accident like this, and that the only accident occurred in the United States during a guard duty detail, says quite a bit.

The Victory model serial numbers ran from V-1 to V-769000 -- that means that over 700,000 Victory models, and all pre Victory models, were not modified.


"The Victory Models that got sent back and repaired all had the Letter V Before their serial numbers to show they had the new design Hammer Block."

No.

The modified guns had a small S stamped at the rear sideplate screw and an S stamped on the butt along with the serial number. It's easy to tell if this is a Springfield modified gun because the added S is often out of line with the rest of the serial number and is in a different font.


Once the modified safety mechanism entered production at Smith & Wesson the serial number was changed to an SV prefix.