1911's. Is "tight" good?

[Larry C.]

Howdy,

My Springfield Armory 1911 (made in 1999 as it's standard model at the time) has seen very little use since I bought it some 5 years ago. Probably 3-400 rounds until recently.
As I field stripped it (with a little asst. from the range master! Embarrasing, but I'm a revolver guy.) and reassembled it the range master commented. "sheesh, but that is one TIGHT 1911!" He felt that it bordered on being too tight. My father was in the Army and told me that for combat the Korean War vets liked 'em on the loose side.
As a revolver and non semi-auto guy I don't know which is preferable. I would consider my full-size Springfield for CCW, it's never given me a single problem when firing. I shoot surprisingly well with it; Better than I do with my favorite Model 10!
Is "tight" the way a good 1911 should be? FWIW: my serial # begins with the letters NM. One other thing, the range officer when helping me field-strip my Springfield held up the slide and tried to get the barrel to fall out. It didn't. He said that the barrel SHOULD'VE fallen or slidden out pretty much on it's own. Please chime in. All my experience with 1911's have been with this one.

Respectfully,
Larry C.

 

[BillCA]

That sounds like one TIGHT 1911!

The only answer I can give you is "it depends".

The tighter a 1911 is the more likely it is to malfunction if dirt, sand, mud, etc get into the works. It's accuracy will be superb most likely, but too tight of a gun can malfunction.

Looser guns are more reliable but you give up something in accuracy. If you're intent is as a CCW gun, some looseness should be present so that dust, lint, fabric threads etc don't cause a malfunction. How much looseness is a matter of great debate.

FWIW - Once the barrel bushing, recoil spring, spring cap and plunger are removed, the typical 1911 barrel should drop at the rear and allow you to slide the barrel forward and out of the slide. If gravity doesn't allow this to happen (1)check to ensure the barrel bushing has been removed; (2)check the locking lugs (half-round raised points on the barrel above/forward of the chamber). They may have deformed slightly to fit an undesize locking grooves in the slide. Check the locking lug recesses in the frame to ensure they are still smooth & deep. The barrel should move into and out of these locking lug grooves with almost no effort.

 

[Majic]

If you have put that many rounds thru the pistol without problems then look at the rangemaster with a jaded eye. Rangemaster don't equate to gunsmith. If you are not having feeding problems then continue to enjoy your pistol.

 

[OBIWAN]

In the end...it probably doesn't matter

Shooting it a lot will loosen it up

And tell you if you have any problems

 

[deezulsmoke]

Tight can be good. Loose does not mean that it is good. This is one of the "holy grail" conversations of 1911s. There are those that believe that a 1911 has to be as loose as a goose work right. There are others, like me, that believe that a 1911 can be built tight, accurate, and reliable. There are new guns out there than can come off the shelf very loose and jam. There are tight ones that run and run. I won't go into the detail of the ones that I have had problems with and those that have not had any, but loose or tight was never the issue or the problem. Most of the issues with malfs was mags, extractors and such. I have had between 6-12 1911s at the same time, and they were all bought new for the proper tightness and fit. They all shot well. Do some research. The range guy is just going on hearsay, not personal experience. Look at the Les Baers, Browns, Wilsons at the gun shop. They are not loose by a stretch. I have a Rock River 1911 that is tight tight tight and it runs all day long, will feed anything and probably shoot the eyeballs out of a gnat at 25 yards if I was able to do it. There has been a lot learned about the 1911 in the last 100 years, and there are lots of things that work and don't. Tight alone does not make a good gun. Loose does not make a good gun. But, they can be built right, as tight as a vault, and run all day long. The looser the gun, the more tolerant they are of sloppy buildup. But that does not mean that the 1911 has to be built loose to work. Far from it.

Deez.

 

[CCW1911]

I have built guns that are very tight and very reliable, if it's done right it will work. Modern methods and materials allow us to build 1911's much better than possible in the old days when the "has to be loose to work" excuses where used. I'm not sure your range master is very knowledgeable about modern 1911's, I don't understand why he thought the barrel should just fall out? It is fairly common for the back end of the slide where it hits the frame to get peened a little and make it harder to slide the barrel out. That has nothing to do with how tight the gun was built. The slide on some S/A's and Para's have a tight spot just as you put the slide back on the frame, once it slide back where it normaly operates it's fine. Not an indication of too tight either. If your S/A is working good I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[HappyGunner]

Range experts

I have seen many so called range experts just like auto experts and computer experts some you can trust what they advise others you don't. I say if you'r 1911 is shooting without failure it's good to go.

 

[k_dawg]

IMHO: the only area that can be "too tight" is the forward/back movement. If you remove the recoil spring, it should slide easily forward/back, without any binding/friction.

If the firearm is performing fine, and fully returning to battery.. that is all that is needed.

That is assuming hte gun is well maintained and cleaned. In "battle", having more slop may be desirable.

 

[Handy]

There's good tight and bad tight. Was the range master able to tell which yours was by looking at the outside of it?

 

[Dave Sample]

I Like Tite!

 

[S.E.R.T.SGT]

..my experience..

Is to tight right??? Well here is some of the things that I have come across. I have owned multiple 1911s and have enjoyed carrying all of them. (My duty carry is currently a custom 1911). Of those I have twice experienced issues where the guns were "to tight". The first was a Kimber Custom Classic in which the bullet was not "seating" all the way into the barrel, and therefore causing the slide to not go all the way forward. I had to send this back to Kimber twice, and was told by them they try and get the tolerances so "tight" that a millimeter here or there can make the difference between perfect feeding and these "jams". After the second go around it has performed flawlessly. The other was a custom made 1911 that was doing basically the same thing. I took it back to the gunsmith, and told him what was going on. His response to me was that he tries to get the tolerances as tight as possible because the tighter it is the more accuracy you get. His concern with making it to "loose" was that there was the possibility of losing some of the accuracy of the gun. Again a minor adjustment, and it works great. So in my opinion, it is trying to find that "happy medium" where technology meets performance. Hope this helps.

S.E.R.T.SGT

 

[~Scott~]

I didn't read through all of the responses, so forgive me if I am repeating information...... but the NM in the serial number is for National Match.... same as Trophy Match.... or Match Grade..... this means that it is one of Springfields National Match pistols made for accuracy in competition (or whatever )

**EDIT** Sorry folks... I stand corrected... the information I posted here is inaccurate..... I only leave it now so someone else doesn't make the same mistake. I took the word of a local gun shop counter guy.... I should have done my homework.....

 

[Dave Sample]

If I was going to Iraq, I would want a WWI GI 45 ACP on my hip and I would run it bone dry. If I am going to shoot pistol matches, I want a nice tight accurate 1911 Custom Built with all the right parts and 150 hour of work by yours truly. If I want a carry gun, I use a 1954 LW Commander with some tweaks by me to make it more accurate (in case I need to reach out and touch someone) and more reliable and easy to handle. I think tight depends on what you are asking that weapon to do for you.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Two myths seem to be mentioned here. First, a tight 1911 isn't necessarily an accurate 1911 if by tightness, you are talking about slide to frame fit. Slide to frame fit does not affect accuracy very much. You can have a very accurate loose 1911. How? Accuracy is in the lockup of the slide to the barrel. If the sights align with the slide and the barrel, the even with a loose slide to frame fit, the rounds will go where fired.

Second is the notion of 'loosening up' with firing. If your gun is properly lubed, then you should not get much change in your slide to frame fit. I have a Wilson CQB with nearly 65K rounds through it and the slide to frame fit is still tight, and tighter than most new 1911s I see at the gun show by Colt, Kimber, and Springfield (but certainly not all). If you are waiting on a tight slide to frame fit to loosen up, a properly lubed gun isn't going to help much.

Happy Gunner is right. If your gun is working well, don't mess with it!

 

[Hunter Customs]

Double Naught Spy,
Very well said and straight facts. Slide to frame fit at most accounts for 10% of the mechanical accuracy in a 1911. For the record my mentor taught me it's more like 5%. If memory serves me correctly, Ed Brown (one of the most knowledgeable smiths in the business) did and article on this for the American Handgunner magazine confirming exactly what I was taught.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

 

[Dave Sample]

Well ! OK. No further comment.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

I had a 1911 tightened up by Clark guns as per my specs. I used the old Unique powder (very dirty). After about 200 rounds, she'd lock up tighter than a drum until I cleaned it.

I still shoot it, but Unique doesn't seem to be as dirty as it used to be. Might be my imagination, though.

The gun is far more accurate than I can shoot, that's cause it's so tight.