bedbugbilly
New member
O.K. . . . I'm old so sometimes I have some strange thoughts go through my mind. For some reason, I found myself thinking about the P08 Luger and so I have some questions that maybe some of you experienced with both the 1911 and the Lugers can answer.
First, I'm an old "revolver" guy and have never owned many semi autos so bear with me.
All one has to do is look at the threads to know the popularity of the 1911 platform. I don't want this to turn in to a debate on which is better, etc. - so let's agree that the M1911 and M1911A1 pistols are great pistols and have transformed in to a number of different 1911 "platforms". It is so good that it has remained popular for 107 years - so it speaks for itself. I have owned one M1911A1 - Colt mfg in 1943 that was brought back by a Navy pilot after WWII. I ended up selling it as it was pristine and with the original issue pistol belt, holster, mag pouch and magazines - it was too much of a "collector's piece" to give it much wear. I was taught how to field strip it blind folded by an old WWII Marine who served in the Pacific so I am aware of the components, etc. and for want of a better word, "simplicity". So we all agree that the 1911 platform is an excellent one.
Now . . . the P08 Luger . . .
My only experience with them is that I have handled three of them . . . well over 50 years ago. One was brought back by a WWI vet that I knew, the others by fathers of a couple of my classmates. One was a very nice one, the other not so nice, it had been run over by tank treads and could shoot around corners probably.
The Luger served the Germans well in both WWI ad WWII. It is chambered in 9mm that even today remains one of the most popular cartridges. All I know of them is this . . .
1. They have a toggle bolt (?)
2. On gunbroker, originals go for a very hefty price
3. I believe Mauser made some in the 1970's ? as I saw a video of one
4. I watched a video on how to field strip one and it looks to be much more difficult than a 1911 - in terms of taking it all the way down - for someone (like me) who isn't familiar with them
5. Stoger made some chambered in 22 rimfire
Other than that, I'm pretty ignorant on them. I know there are dedicated collectors of the Lugers, just like collectors of the 1911s. From some videos I watched, they seem to function and shoot well and to be truthful, I wouldn't mind having one but at my age, I can't justify the price of an original. As a "historic" firearm, I like them as much as a 1911, a SAA, etc.
So . . . my questions, I guess, is that if the 1911 has remained so popular for 107 years, why has the Luger not remained popular . .. or popular enough that someone is not continuing to make them or reproduce them?
I'm guessing that the machining may be a big part of it and the set up cost, production cost, etc. per unit? But again, you have to have a "market" for them to make sales.
Let's face it, there are a lot of plastic guns on the market that are cheaper and that function well and I realize that. Plus, it may be that the "young'uns" (and no offense intended) just don't find them appealing . . . but then there are plenty of younger people who shoot the 1911 platform.
Why is it that the Lugeer didn't retain the appeal of the 1911? I realize that the production cost of them might put them up in a higher price range but there are still many shooters who will spend more money for a high quality pistol - if they like it. And in the case of the Luger, perhaps people just don't like them or the design? Is there a problem with the design?
what "killed" the Luger while the 1911s survived?
I know this is a pistol forum, but I will mention another firearm that has lasted - or I should say design of rifle. I have a 1905 Danzig GEW98 German Mauser that a friend of mine brought back from France in 1919. My friend that gave it to me has been gone for 50 years now but that old 8mm rifle is still shooting my reloads just fine and will still keep on ticking for a long time in the future. The Mauser design has bee copied, duplicated and still continues to have its influence on rifles being produced today.
So . . what are your thoughts on why the 1911s continue on after 107 years but the Lugers fell by the wayside? No arguments please . . . I'm just curious. Thanks.
First, I'm an old "revolver" guy and have never owned many semi autos so bear with me.
All one has to do is look at the threads to know the popularity of the 1911 platform. I don't want this to turn in to a debate on which is better, etc. - so let's agree that the M1911 and M1911A1 pistols are great pistols and have transformed in to a number of different 1911 "platforms". It is so good that it has remained popular for 107 years - so it speaks for itself. I have owned one M1911A1 - Colt mfg in 1943 that was brought back by a Navy pilot after WWII. I ended up selling it as it was pristine and with the original issue pistol belt, holster, mag pouch and magazines - it was too much of a "collector's piece" to give it much wear. I was taught how to field strip it blind folded by an old WWII Marine who served in the Pacific so I am aware of the components, etc. and for want of a better word, "simplicity". So we all agree that the 1911 platform is an excellent one.
Now . . . the P08 Luger . . .
My only experience with them is that I have handled three of them . . . well over 50 years ago. One was brought back by a WWI vet that I knew, the others by fathers of a couple of my classmates. One was a very nice one, the other not so nice, it had been run over by tank treads and could shoot around corners probably.
The Luger served the Germans well in both WWI ad WWII. It is chambered in 9mm that even today remains one of the most popular cartridges. All I know of them is this . . .
1. They have a toggle bolt (?)
2. On gunbroker, originals go for a very hefty price
3. I believe Mauser made some in the 1970's ? as I saw a video of one
4. I watched a video on how to field strip one and it looks to be much more difficult than a 1911 - in terms of taking it all the way down - for someone (like me) who isn't familiar with them
5. Stoger made some chambered in 22 rimfire
Other than that, I'm pretty ignorant on them. I know there are dedicated collectors of the Lugers, just like collectors of the 1911s. From some videos I watched, they seem to function and shoot well and to be truthful, I wouldn't mind having one but at my age, I can't justify the price of an original. As a "historic" firearm, I like them as much as a 1911, a SAA, etc.
So . . . my questions, I guess, is that if the 1911 has remained so popular for 107 years, why has the Luger not remained popular . .. or popular enough that someone is not continuing to make them or reproduce them?
I'm guessing that the machining may be a big part of it and the set up cost, production cost, etc. per unit? But again, you have to have a "market" for them to make sales.
Let's face it, there are a lot of plastic guns on the market that are cheaper and that function well and I realize that. Plus, it may be that the "young'uns" (and no offense intended) just don't find them appealing . . . but then there are plenty of younger people who shoot the 1911 platform.
Why is it that the Lugeer didn't retain the appeal of the 1911? I realize that the production cost of them might put them up in a higher price range but there are still many shooters who will spend more money for a high quality pistol - if they like it. And in the case of the Luger, perhaps people just don't like them or the design? Is there a problem with the design?
what "killed" the Luger while the 1911s survived?
I know this is a pistol forum, but I will mention another firearm that has lasted - or I should say design of rifle. I have a 1905 Danzig GEW98 German Mauser that a friend of mine brought back from France in 1919. My friend that gave it to me has been gone for 50 years now but that old 8mm rifle is still shooting my reloads just fine and will still keep on ticking for a long time in the future. The Mauser design has bee copied, duplicated and still continues to have its influence on rifles being produced today.
So . . what are your thoughts on why the 1911s continue on after 107 years but the Lugers fell by the wayside? No arguments please . . . I'm just curious. Thanks.