1911 malfunction question....

[Skans]

I'm not all that familiar with 1911's. The gun in question is an STI 2011 frame .45.

When I cock the hammer and depress the trigger, the hammer will only fall to the half-cock position and will go no further. Every now the hammer will drop all the way down to strike the firing pin when the tigger is pulled. I'd say it functions correctly only about 10% of the time....the other 90% of the time it will only fall to half-cock.

Anyone know what's going on here? I'm trying to avoid taking down all of the frame parts to figure this out. So, I figured I'd ask here first and see if anyone else has ever experienced this on a 2011 or a 1911 frame.

 

[NGIB]

If the gun has an overtravel screw on the trigger - it's tightened down to far and not allowing the hammer notch to clear. Loosen the screw and all will be fine. DO NOT keep dry firing with the screw too tight as you can damage the hammer & sear...

 

[Skans]

Yes, the gun has an overtravel screw - I will try loosening that first. The only way I dry fire the gun, since I discovered this problem, is by following the down with my thumb. I am a little concerned that one of the internal parts might already be damaged, though. I guess there is a possibility that a burr has formed on the hammer notch or the sear. I'm hoping that the screw adjustment helps.

 

[NGIB]

If there's damage, be sure to buy the new hammer & sear as a matched set - much easier than fitting the individual components...

 

[Skans]

I tried adjusting the overtravell screw - didn't help.

So, I took my STI apart and it does appear that the sear is damaged. Not being familiar with the all of the terminology on 1911/2011 parts, I'll try to describe where the damage is. It's almost easier to describe where it's not. The part of the sear that engages the notches on the hammer is fine. The ears on the front of the sear (part facing toward front of the gun) seems fine. However, there is a place on the bottom rear of the sear, where the spring engages and where the bottom of the disconector seems to engage, that part has a 2mm section that is chipped or sheared off on just the left side. The damage is obvious, but only when I got the sear off (or that may be my inexperience with this gun.)

I guess my choices are 1) buy a hammer-sear-disconector kit which has been pre-fitted and try to install it myself; or 2) take it to a gunsmith and have him install a new sear. I'm leaning toward the 2nd option.

I guess 1911's or their high-tech cousin the 2011 are prone to breakages like this and must be serviced by gunsmiths to get the optimum performance out of them. I could probably "get the job done", but I doubt that I would be satisfied with the way the trigger felt when I was done. Oh well....

 

[NGIB]

The kits are pretty easy to install and I wouldn't expect the trigger pull to change much. I'm assuming this was a used gun? If so, having a smith look it over and change the sear would probably be a good idea.

Kitchen table gunsmithing is a big reason 1911s are cussed at by some...

 

[Skans]

Kitchen table gunsmithing is a big reason 1911s are cussed at by some...

Yes, the gun was used when I bought it. It shouldn't be a hard part to replace, and I could probably do the work "good enough". But, this is supposed to be an exceptional pistol and I hate to ruin it.

I will say this about the 1911 type guns. When they work, they work great. But, I don't really like the design that much from a reliability standpoint. you would think that parts like the sear, hammer, trigger and disconector just wouldn't break.......maybe wear down to where they need to be replaced after 30,000 rounds, but not break. From what I've read, breaking sears is kind of common. I guess I'm dealing with a precision instrument and need to respect it as such.

 

[NGIB]

I've never had a sear break. I suspect the overtravel screw was a tad to tight, which caused the hammer to beat the sear to death on every shot...

 

[Quentin2]

Quote:
"I will say this about the 1911 type guns. When they work, they work great. But, I don't really like the design that much from a reliability standpoint."


An authentic 1911 is among the most reliable weapons of all time. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and everything in between - they have had a stellar performance record. The design is excellent and they rarely break, for example my 1976 Colt Government Model works as well today as when it was new.

Newer tweaked out designs could be less reliable but the old 1911 IS reliable.

 

[Skans]

UPDATE:

So, I decided to do a little experiment to see if it was really the small chip on the sear that was causing the problem of the hammer dropping to half-cock.

I removed the sear and built up the area that was chipped with JB Weld. It's not in an area that takes a lot of impact. I sanded the built up are to make it as flush as possible with the rest of the sear. Popped the sear back in the gun and dry fired it a few times. It seems to work just fine, now.

So, that tiny chip was causing all the problems. I need a new sear, but I'm going to leave the one I fixed with JB Weld to see how it actually performs under live fire. It aught to be interesting.

 

[Stonebender]

Am I the only one shaking my head right now?...

 

[Hawg]

deleted, unwarranted

 

[Technosavant]

I sure wouldn't use a gun with a sear repaired in the method you mention. Just isn't worth the possible trouble if it breaks and goes full auto on you, which a chipped sear might well do (holds the hammer, but the closing slide jars it loose and the half cock doesn't catch it- short trip from where you are now).

I'd have a qualified gunsmith install a new sear.

 

[Beauhooligan]

I am a bit old fashioned, but have been shooting 1911s for about 40 years, and my advice to SKANS would be to take his STI 1911 to a qualified gunsmith. No one should be using crap like JB Weld on internal parts of a 1911 even for test purposes. I think he is running a risk of having some kind of tragic event happening.

 

[AZAK]

I removed the sear and built up the area that was chipped with JB Weld.

I have used JB Weld and duct tape most recently on my snowblower chute for a crack. Worked like a champ!

As far as something to use in a pistol... that I never plan on doing!

Gunsmith pronto.

 

[ChicagoTex]

I think he is running a risk of having some kind of tragic event happening.

I'm not sure what you're envisioning, nothing Skans has done is capable of making anything unintended happen except either A. going full auto (certainly undesireable, but not dangerous if pointed downrange) or B. failing to fire.

If he were planning to carry it, that'd be a different story, but I don't think he is.

I guess 1911's or their high-tech cousin the 2011 are prone to breakages like this and must be serviced by gunsmiths to get the optimum performance out of them.

The only reason this breakage occurred is because some moron (either the previous owner or the guys at the gun shop selling it, if you bought it at a shop) overadjusted the overtravel screw. As most 1911s don't even have adjustable overtravel screws, this damage is quite out of the ordinary for the type.

Also, who told you the 2011 is a "high-tech cousin" of the 1911? As far as I know the only meaningful difference is that 2011s are sized for double-stacked mags - the rest of the nomenclature is just hype.

 

[Fremmer]

Yes, the gun was used when I bought it. It shouldn't be a hard part to replace, and I could probably do the work "good enough". But, this is supposed to be an exceptional pistol and I hate to ruin it.

So take/send the gun to a Smith who regularly works on 1911's. Let him check your work, and the sear, and the rest of it. That gun is a mess, so let a pro make sure it is safe.

 

[lomaxanderson]

what if it goes full auto at the range next to some gung ho LEO who feels you modified it to go full auto ...would be hard to explain especialy if they inspect it and see your "repair"...
GUNSMITH is cheaper than a lawyer ..

 

[MLeake]

full auto 1911 at range...

... I knew somebody this happened to, once. Sear failed on an old 1911 he'd inherited from his grandfather.

The pistol was initially pointed downrange, but by the time the weapon stopped cycling, he was on his back and his last couple rounds had gone into the ceiling.

Shock of the event apparently didn't let him think to release the trigger; I think he probably death-gripped the pistol to try to control it. Meanwhile, he stumbled back in shock and fell over. Luckily, there were no injuries to anybody.

On a similar note, I think most of us read about the small boy who died at a Massachusetts gun show recently, when for some inexplicable reason a vendor allowed him to shoot an Uzi machinepistol, and under full auto the muzzle rise came back far enough that the boy shot himself in the head.

Full auto, in a short light weapon, unexpected (the little boy probably knew it was full auto in his case but had no idea what that would mean physically) is a recipe for major disaster, no matter where the muzzle initially points. You'd have to have both nerves and wrists of steel for this to go well.

 

[alistaire]

Take it to a gunsmith and have him convert it to normal 1911 operation - no 'overtravel screw' and put in an undamaged sear.