1911 Kb!

Navy joe

New member
For all you Glock-a-philes out there, yes my 1911 died tonight. I was shooting through my first two mags of factory PMC ball when the 14th rd went off with half recoil and a muted sound. The hammer was at half-cock. Smoke rolled out of the back of the gun and out the magwell when I dropped the mag. Top round in mag was soot black.

I quickly realized I wouldn't be hand cycling this one clear.From my target I could not verify if the bullet had left the bore, I had fired 14 shots, but thanks to the kid next door my paper had 17 or so holes in it. So I did something smart and verified the chamber was clear by dropping a pen down the bore. It's depth showed me it was reaching pretty much to the breech face and I could safely look down the bore. Hmm, brass still there. The barrel absolutely would not drop down to unlock(why becomes obvious later. I popped the bushing, plug and spring out, wiggle the front of the barrel, beat down on the barrel hood with a steel base Wilson, etc. No dice, the slide would stroke to the point where the barrel should start to cam down and then stop. Did the std beat the front of the slide down on a table edge to force it back. Nope, no dice.

Had an old military armorer/competitive 1911 shooter look at it, he figured too that something was broke bad inside. I was still blaming the ammo for the breakage, two clues that something was broke were the fact that the slide would go 1/8" fwd of where it should have been in battery and the front of the slide was sitting up in relation to the fwd edge of the frame. Shooting adventure over, I went home. The old leg match shooter had allowed as to how he had once burst a barrel and had bandsawed the top half of the slide off to get the gun apart.

Thinking it over I had a better plan. Once home I whipped out the Dremel. Starting with a piece of beer can scope shim in between the frame and slide stop arm as sacrificial metal I cut through the arm just aft of the pin area. No scratches on Frame or slide. Drove the slide stop pin out and lo and behold the gun came apart! Turns out the bottom of the barrel was broken off. From about 5 to 7 o'clock just aft of the link lug to about 1/2" up the bottom centerline of the bore. Link and pin were still there untouched. The case was still in the barrel, bulged out along the rear of the break line. It took a little doing to weasel the barrel out of the slide as the extractor was still engaged. The case bulge is what had so throughly locked the gun up, the case would not begin to extract allowing the barrel and slide to separate as they would during a normal cycle. Apparently the barrel had near completely broke on the previous shot and the last shot finished it off with most of the pressure escaping through the break.

The good news is I did not blow my face off clearing a malfunction. The slide and frame are untouched, only the barrel and the slidestop I cut are damaged. Plus I had already obligated to buy a barrel off another TFL'er. Spare slidestops I have, the gun will be running again this week. I guess that after 57 years and untold abuses it was time for that poor old barrel to go. I tried contacting Remington-Rand customer service, but someone tells me their e-mail is down. ;)

All guns break, sometimes in the damnedest of ways. Have a spare.
 

New_comer

New member
The best thing is that you're safe ;)

Thanks for sharing that...

Turns out the bottom of the barrel was broken off. From about 5 to 7 o'clock just aft of the link lug to about 1/2" up the bottom centerline of the bore. Link and pin were still there untouched
I wonder if symptoms could have been apparent before this catastrophic failure occurred???:confused:

I mean, metals like steel have that "yield" or "tensile" (can't remember which) property where the material already demonstrates "stretching" before breaking. The chamber should have been too "loose-fitting" when a cartridge is fitted probably months before this happened. Maybe too minute for the human eye to notice. :rolleyes:

Any pics???
 

GLOCKT

New member
wow!

sorry to hear of your misfortune.
good to hear your hand is still intact.
I could only imagine the sting one occurs after such an experience.
I've got several thousands of reloads through my 3 Glocks and all 3 inspect well by the local Armorer.
He says I'm playing with a time bomb,but it doesn't show besides common wear.
I know my reloader,brother in-law.he doesn't push these .40sw loads I shoot.
Thanks for the insight.
SAFE-SHOOTING!
 

AndABeer

New member
Welcome to our universe! Not sure which parallel dimension you are from but be comforted by knowing that while you are in this one, only Glocks kB. ;)

Glad you are safe and no injuries resulted.
 

Pampers

New member
Bad Design?

The fact that you weren't injured, and that the pistol can be returned to service speaks volumes about the basic design of the pistol.

The fact that it was a "Factory Load" neither eliminates the posibility of an overcharge, nor the possibility of bullet setback.
 

BigG

New member
Castlebravo, it was a GI 1911A1 by Remington Rand, 1945 production if my math is correct. Should be in 45 ACP.

:eek:The horror! The horror! :eek: Even a GI pistol can break! :eek:

Glad you were able to get it apart and diagnose the prob without otherwise harming yer trophy, Joe! :D My Rem Rand broke the sear or hammer engagement from my incessant dry firing. A police dept armorer replaced whatever was wrong with surplus parts at no charge.
 

Navy joe

New member
What caliber was it?
Ow, I think I broke a rib laughing. In my world there can be only one. So, .45 ACP of course.

Don't think it was a ammo issue, the way the brass molded around the break tells me it was pretty broke on the previous shot or shots which all felt normal. Since owning it I have put 3000 plus rds through it and a lot of +P carry stuff. I'm sure its seen much more in its life.

Sick puppy that I am I won't even wait for my new barrel that the gun was going to get anyway, it's re-assembled and ready to shoot with a period correct looking slidestop from my Sistema project gun as well as the pitted excuse for a barrel from the same. Think I'll go shootin today, match tomorrow if everything is Ok.
 

Quail Fat

Moderator
1911's are pretty tough. I've had 2 1911 Kabooms and nothing on the pistol was damaged..

When a Glock Kabooms, the Barrel and Frame usually gernades..
 

pogo2

New member
My first .45 of the 1911 design was a Remington Rand GI issue from the WW2 era, just like yours. But I sold it many years ago.

My theory about the failure of your 57-year old barrel is fatigue. This is a type of metal failure that results from many, many cycles of stress causing a gradual weakening in the metal at the point where the stress is concentrated. Remember the fatigue failure in the old Lockheed Electra turboprop planes, when the wings would fall off? It caused a couple of fatal crashes before the cause was ascertained. Fatigue failure can happen in a few cycles or many millions of cycles, depending on the metal properties, the geometry of the part, and the amount of stress.

I would bet that the point of failure in the barrel that you described was a stress concentration area, due to either barrel expansion under internal pressure as a round is fired, or bending stress on the barrel as the slide retracted and the barrel swung up on the link. How many rounds of ammo do you figure had gone through the barrel in 57 years?

I'm glad you weren't injured, and that you will be able to salvage the gun by buying a new barrel.
 

Navy joe

New member
Pogo, you are correct, it was a fatigue failure, right at the rear radius of where the link lug joins the barrel. By the crack you could tell it started on the outside, not the inside like a blow-up would have been. Worst part is that the junky Sistema barrel in that gun groups as well as my Colt 70 series. Can't wait to see what happens with a real barrel & tight bushing. Amazing design, I can take a barrel from another continent and 20 yrs older than the gun and just drop it in. So yes, Sistemas were made accurate to Colt specs. 250 rds today, no failures.
 

stans

New member
Sounds like the barrel just simply wore out. Bottom lugs can be sheared if the gun is subjected to over pressure loads, excessively strong recoil springs, improper fitting, a defect in the metal, or extensive use. I personally would not recommend extensive use of +P ammo in old barrels and the use of such ammo is going to accelerate wear on any gun.
 
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