1911 FLGR

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Koda94

New member
1911 Full Length Guide Rod

Why do 1911 manufacturers sell new 1911s with a Full Length Guide Rod (FLGR) when it has no proven advantage but harder to disassemble? Is it the same reason many 1911 manufacturers sell bushing compensator's? This includes high end 1911 manufacturers, I would think if you wanted a FLGR that would be an after market accessory.
 
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BarryLee

New member
I would think if you wanted a FLGR that would be an after market accessory.
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I suppose it is like a lot of "upgrades" that come standard on many guns. For instance: front strap checkering, G10 Grips, beaver tails, skeletonized hammers/triggers, etc. At the end of the day I assume that people who buy a gun with a FLGR or any other upgraded part wanted them and buying it preinstalled is generally cheaper than adding it later.
 
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CDW4ME

New member
I replaced the dual recoil spring & little plastic guide rod in my 10mm Delta Elite with a FLGR and single 23# recoil spring.
Additional weight of guide rod affecting balance of pistol was noticeable, subjectively increased weight toward muzzle.
I have to use a bushing wrench to disassemble Colt now, but no big deal to me.
My Les Baer UTC 45 acp has a traditional short guide rod but it is so hard fit I can't field strip without a wrench after over 1,000 rounds.
My 10mm Ruger SR 1911 came with a FLGR / bushing less barrel I don't consider having to use a paperclip to field strip much inconvenience.
 
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Koda94

New member
BarryLee said:
I suppose it is like a lot of "upgrades" that come standard on many guns. For instance: front strap checkering, G10 Grips, beaver tails, skeletonized hammers/triggers, etc. At the end of the day I assume that people who buy a gun with a FLGR or any other upgraded part wanted them and buying it preinstalled is generally cheaper than adding it later.
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probably true, but all the other upgrades you suggested offer some kind of improvement to the performance or handling of the gun. The FLGR doesn't... I'm just wondering why the manufacturers include them. I cant say I agree that people who buy a new gun with a FLGR actually want it... There are probably a good dozen 1911s I would like to own that come with them that I wouldn't even consider turning down because of the rod. I think people buy new guns that come closest to what they want and generally accept anything else that isn't important to them.
 
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Koda94

New member
CDW4ME said:
I replaced the dual recoil spring & little plastic guide rod in my 10mm Delta Elite with a FLGR and single 23# recoil spring.
Additional weight of guide rod affecting balance of pistol was noticeable, subjectively increased weight toward muzzle.
I have to use a bushing wrench to disassemble Colt now, but no big deal to me.
My Les Baer UTC 45 acp has a traditional short guide rod but it is so hard fit I can't field strip without a wrench after over 1,000 rounds.
My 10mm Ruger SR 1911 came with a FLGR / bushing less barrel I don't consider having to use a paperclip to field strip much inconvenience.
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Id say the weight is really subjective if its noticeable. A stainless FLGR govt weighs only 1.6oz total with most of it back to the rear of the barrel. I have one and reduced recoil is not anything I'm able to notice anyways.
 
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Hawg

New member
I have a FLGR and while I don't really care for it it doesn't make disassembly any harder. I can press the lock down with the base of a mag. It does allow you to remove the entire slide assembly as one piece should you desire to.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
Like many other types of "progress", some folks have convinced themselves that a FLGR not only has some miraculous benefits but that it is worth all kinds of money. Other than adding a little weight to the front end of the pistol, I see no benefit whatever (and many problems), but have given up on trying to convince the true believers that the gadget is not only worthless, but that some types can actually create feeding problems, just what one does not need in a critical situation.

Jim
 
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Koda94

New member
James K said:
Like many other types of "progress", some folks have convinced themselves that a FLGR not only has some miraculous benefits but that it is worth all kinds of money. Other than adding a little weight to the front end of the pistol, I see no benefit whatever (and many problems), but have given up on trying to convince the true believers that the gadget is not only worthless, but that some types can actually create feeding problems, just what one does not need in a critical situation.

Jim
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and that is why I have my question, which still stands unanswered, why do all the manufacturers include them in new 1911 guns? ...especially the high end manufacturers.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
Because some people have been convinced, or convinced themselves, that the FLGR has some benefit and they make enough noise that the manufacturers provide it. If enough prospective buyers think painting a pistol purple will provide some benefit, we will see nothing but purple pistols. (Or is that already happening?)

Jim
 
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tipoc

New member
and that is why I have my question, which still stands unanswered, why do all the manufacturers include them in new 1911 guns? ...especially the high end manufacturers.
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Not all do. Some do in some guns. But the high point for the popularity of FLGR's passed about 7-10 years ago.

Those manufacturers that do place them in guns, do so because some shooters perceive them as an extra that can bring them benefits and it helps the manufacturers sell another gun. A good number will buy a gun with a FLGR installed because they are easy to swap out and they can be sold or traded off.

tipoc
 
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tipoc

New member
Jerry Miculik, a warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVXOj9Uc5pg

But it costs not much at all for folks to try them for themselves in a gun and see for themselves. You learn something in the process.

Like Jerry says, some things are made to catch the fisherman and not the fish.

tipoc
 
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RickB

New member
It is handy for conversion top-ends that can be merely slid off the frame intact.

Extra weight can be good or bad.
 
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Iron bottom

New member
So Sig, CZ, Walther, Glock and others don't know about the short guide rod? Someone should let them know what they are missing.
 
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Walt Sherrill

New member
Some years ago with the "advantage" of FLGRs was discussed here, I posted a pretty thorough study I found of a bunch of different 1911s, using a Ransom Rest, testing whether the FLGR affected lockup or performance in any way. All of the guns used in the test were well-tuned/set-up guns.

The test results showed no differences. (I'm not sure I could find that study again, but a search here might find it. I didn't try.) There may be other reasons, but GUN PERFORMANCE doesn't seem to be one of them.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
Koda94 said:
and that is why I have my question, which still stands unanswered, why do all the manufacturers include them in new 1911 guns? ...especially the high end manufacturers.
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Short answer: Because so-called "experts" have pronounced that there are various purported benefits to the FLGR, manufacturers offer them because many buyers have been convinced that they "need" them.

Want one? I have a drawer full -- any 1911 that comes through my door with a FLGR gets an immediate conversion to a standard 1911 recoil system as the first item of business.
 
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tipoc

New member
So Sig, CZ, Walther, Glock and others don't know about the short guide rod? Someone should let them know what they are missing.
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These are all guns of different design than the 1911. They are also different from Browning's early designs like the M1900, M1903 Pocket Hammer and Pocket Hammerless, which had short guide rods. The BHP also did.

I don't assume the knowledge to fully speak as to why other makes of pistols have the weight springs that they do or why they have other design spring systems. Some of these have captured spring systems which require FLGRs and eliminate hunting for dropped springs or flying spring plugs.

The question here wasn't that one but the utility of FLGRs in 1911s. If you like them use them. But I think it's useful to be realistic about them.

tipoc
 
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Koda94

New member
Aguila Blanca said:
Short answer: Because so-called "experts" have pronounced that there are various purported benefits to the FLGR, manufacturers offer them because many buyers have been convinced that they "need" them.

Want one? I have a drawer full -- any 1911 that comes through my door with a FLGR gets an immediate conversion to a standard 1911 recoil system as the first item of business.
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a while ago I got a govt Springfield that came with a 2 piece FLGR. I hated it, the disassembly process. I had a 1 piece FLGR on a old colt that I could remove without any tools assembly but still a pain in the finger, that I added to that pistol because I "thought" it was appropriate. Hating the 2 pc I got to thinking and reading, I was cautious of the idea of converting both to GI style... if Springfield added it on their new gun I thought there must be a reason... hence my question here why are they doing it?

I searched and read and googled and asked found nothing. I also laughed off that Brownell's video at 0:12, the GI system fully captivates the spring on the I.D. of the plug and the O.D. of the GI rod... any coil spring would never work at all in any application if it kinked anywhere in the process. Also, yes while you can remove the slide as a unit with a FLGR you better not bump it when you set it down the FLGR isn't holding onto much against the barrel lug.

The general consensus among experienced 1911 shooters was it was worthless. So I bought 2 GI plugs and short rods and brought the old Colt and the new SA back to original condition and love it. No tools, no pain in the finger, no performance loss, no looking back.
 
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