1911 Colt "series" and safety features

[bamaranger]

There is another thread running about what amounts to condition 1 v. condition 2 carry with semiauto pistols, and that got me thinking about the various 1911 "series" and their safety features. I about half hijacked that thread, so to avoid any further confusion I started this one.

There are at lease 3 1911 "series" that I can identify, tell me if there's more: 1)early GI and original pistols, 2)series 70, and series 80.

I am particulalry interested in how all that relates to Condition Two carry, the purpose of the half cock notch (hammer stop notch?), etc.

I had always believed that Condition Two was a no-no. A blow to the hammer at full rest could overcome the inertial firing pin by direct contact, or....if the notch was used, a similar blow could shear the notch and allow the hammer to fall and the pistol to fire as well.

What Have I got right or wrong with that and how did the series 70 and 80 pistols change the theory?

 

[1911Tuner]

World Series

Series 70 meant that the pistol was equipped with a collet bushing and Accurizer(tm) barrel. All else was mechanically identical to the original design. Although Series 70 has come to mean "No Lawyer Parts" that isn't its true meaning.

Series 80 ushered in the passive firing pin blocking safety. Along with it came the quarter-cock shelf that only serves as a hammer stop. The original captive half-cock notch was and is a safety, and it was so described by Browning in the 1910 patents before the thumb safety...or "Manual Slide Locking" safety was added.

As a side-note, in the 30s, the Swartz system was tried and ultimately rejected...so a firing pin blocking device is an old concept.

The thumb safety was the final modification. Added at the request of the US Cavalry for hasty reholstering in order to free up both hands when the mounted trooper found himself trying to hang onto a frightened horse. Thus the mantra: "Cocked and Locked! The way that JMB intended!" is a myth.

And before the dire warnings of the dangers involved with manually lowering the hammer start...instructions for accomplishing that with one hand are likewise described in the 1910 patents...in the same paragraph that describes the half-cock as the "Safety Position." A modification to the grip safety tang was made in order to facilitate one-hand decocking, and also described in the patents.

The pistol is designed to be carried in any way that the owner/user chooses.

And, no. Assuming that the firing pin's length is to spec...and the firing pin channel is to spec...a blow to the hammer in full-down Condition 2 won't fire the gun. You can beat the hammer with a hammer until the spur is flat, and the gun won't fire.

 

[bamaranger]

hey

Thanks Tuner, that helps.

 

[polyphemus]

Why was the collet type bushing discontinued?Was it another of those enhancements to something that didn't need to be enhanced?
Just wondering.

 

[mete]

As far as I know it was one of those ideas which didn't work well but I never learned if that was because the idea was bad or more likely poor quality control caused the problems.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I was going to respond but 1911Tuner beat me to it. Just to summarize what he wrote: Functionally, there aren't three "series," there are only two. Series 80 have the firing pin safety, everything else doesn't.

FWIW, technically the Defender is a Series 90, meaning a model that was introduced during the 1990 decade, but functionally it's a series 80.

 

[polyphemus]

Quote:"As far as I know it was one of those ideas which didn't work well but I never learned if that was because the idea was bad or more likely poor quality control caused the problems."
Colt?The Colt?bad ideas?poor quality control?What is this world coming to?

 

[SVO]

Locally, I know of one 70 series Gold Cup that had one of the "fingers" of the collet bushing break off. The broken piece jammed up the gun. I don't think that was a wide spread problem. I think the real problem with the collet bushing was that it would lose tenstion over time, affecting accuracy.

 

[Rainbow Demon]

The collet bushing of a friends 1911 broke and he sent it back to the factory where they had to saw the slide apart to get it off.
When he got the repaired pistol back he obtained a solid replacement.

 

[James K]

In my somewhat limited experience, the Series 70 collet fingers didn't just "break off'. What usually happened is that a gun owner figured that if some spring tension was good less/more spring was better and they bent, pounded, twisted and tweaked the fingers until (shock! horror! factory defect!) something broke.

The idea was not a bad one; it allowed what amounted to a fitted bushing without the time and labor necessary to fit a special bushing the normal way. But faced with all kinds of complaints, Colt found it easier to just scrap the idea and go back to the old type bushing.

Jim

 

[1911Tuner]

Collet Collet

In my somewhat limited experience, the Series 70 collet fingers didn't just "break off'. What usually happened is that a gun owner figured that if some spring tension was good less/more spring was better and they bent, pounded, twisted and tweaked the fingers until (shock! horror! factory defect!) something broke.

I've seen three collet bushings break. In every instance...after a little inquiry...I discovered that the likely cause was the owners turning the bushings with a tool with the slide in full battery instead of backing the slide up a quarter-inch and turning it.

Not long ago, I had a guy come by with an old Series 70 with a couple minor issues that he wanted me to take a look at. He reached for his bushing wrench, and I had the slide off before he could produce it. He was a little mystified as to how I got the bushing to turn without the wrench.

"Huh? How'd you do that?"

"Do what?"

"Turn that bushing?"

"Like this."

"Ahhh!"

Luckily, the pistol had been bought new by his father, and had seen very little use, and he'd only field-stripped it twice...so the bushing was in good shape.

 

[polyphemus]

OK,the collet bushing was failing because owners did not back off the slide
prior to turning.Would you please describe where it bound?It seems that it should take considerable force to damage it even with a wrench.Thank you

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

OK,the collet bushing was failing because owners did not back off the slide prior to turning.Would you please describe where it bound?

In the slide, and from the barrel tilting and applying force near the muzzle. Properly fitted solid bushings are tight with the pistol in battery. Back it up a quarter inch, and it should be finger tight.

It seems that it should take considerable force to damage it even with a wrench.

Some of them required considerable force to turn...even with the slide backed up.

 

[mete]

"even with the slide backed up" --That indicates poor QC which was my strongest assumption.
There were times [late '70s, early'80s ] when quality of handguns was poor especially S&W. I know of a case where a PD ordered a batch of S&W revolvers .They looked at the guns, closed up the box and shipped them back !!! They got Rugers instead.

 

[RKJ]

I've got 2 (I know I need more) Series 80 Colts and both of them had the collet bushing break. The 1st (a GM) was bought new and never had a bushing wrench used on it. It broke after probably 5000 rounds (maybe less) I replaced it with a solid one and moved on. The 2nd is an OACP that I bought used (and it looked as it had been used hard, I don't have any idea how many rounds have been through it) it broke the 2nd time I took it out. I put a Clark on it and again moved on. Sometimes thing break and it isn't due to heavy handedness.

 

[polyphemus]

That collet bushing must have fit mighty tight,objectionably so (methinks).It is
clear that the barrel is snug to the bushing in battery but so tight that one needs to get the slide to back off the barrel or else?blaming the owner for what more and more appears to be a"bad idea"is not very helpful.

 

[dahermit]

Note that the Series 70 guns with collet bushings were mated with barrels that were not the same diameter their full length. They were reduced behind the bushing, so pushing the slide back until the bushing was no longer in contact with the barrel before turning the bushing was the accepted way of taking it apart. I always did that and did not run into problems with the bushing fingers breaking...although one gun does not a statistical significant number make.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

That collet bushing must have fit mighty tight,objectionably so (methinks).It is
clear that the barrel is snug to the bushing in battery but so tight that one needs to get the slide to back off the barrel or else?blaming the owner for what more and more appears to be a"bad idea"is not very helpful.

Aaaand...all I did was report my own observations and experiences.

Again...

In all three instances...upon questioning the owners of the busted guns...they all admitted that they used a wrench to turn the bushings with the slides in full battery instead of backing up on the slide first.

Does that prove that the practice will cause all collet bushings to fail? No.

Does it prove that it caused those three to fail? No.

It does establish a commonality in those three pistols.

A little deeper understand of how the bushing and Accurizer(tm) barrel work may help.

The muzzle end is enlarged slightly above spec diameter. The section is longer than the new barrels enlarged section at the muzzle. When the enlarged portion of the barrel is forced into the collet, it spreads it out into firm contact with the slide bore at the same time that the spring action is gripping the barrel.

Well...actually, the bushing is forced over the barrel, but for the sake of simplicity, we'll stick with the first description.

Back the slide up a quarter inch, and the part of the bushing that is forced into contact with the slide bore relaxes as it moves the the smaller diameter of the barrel, and allows the bushing to turn more freely. Many of them turn as easily as a solid bushing with clearance. Others are slightly snug, but can still be turned easily with your fingers.

 

[Slamfire]

I had a collet bushing crack and a finger break off on another.

When I found there was a drop in Ed Brown bushing for series 80 pistols, I installed one. It was a tight fit in the frame but I did nothing more than turn it in.

Works fine.

In so far as safety features, series 70 type pistols will slamfire given a combination of hard surface and enough drop height. The series 80 mechanism has a firing pin block. I don't know what is the best way to go, I have had the series 80 firing pin block drop down and jam the pistol. On the other hand, without a firing pin block the pistol can slamfire.

Mr Drake Oldham did some M1911 drop testing where he varied the firing pin weight and drop height. It is all very interesting.

http://www.drakesgunworks.com/Drop_Testing.html

1911 Drop Testing

The original testing used a 9mm steel firing pin and a 9mm titanium firing pin. The firing pin hole was then reamed for a .45 sized pin and the tests were repeated with .45 sized steel and titanium firing pins. All of the firing pins were weighed prior to testing. A Wolff XP firing pin return spring was used for all of the testing. All of the cases used for testing used Winchester large pistol primers. The frame and slide were donated by Gary Smith at Caspian. The pistol was built using techniques learned from Larry Vickers and Bruce Gray. The pistol was tied to a section of 550 cord, looped over a pulley, and dropped onto common floor materials. The magazine was loaded with 8 dummy rounds to bring the pistol up to proper weight. Four floor types were selected. Concrete, Pergo, 5/8 plywood, and shag type carpeting. The thumb safety was left OFF as preliminary testing with the safety ON indicated that damage to the thumb safety, slide, and plunger tube would occur with only a few drops. The hammer frequently dropped to the half cock notch during testing.

9mm STI titanium pin 2.17 grams
9 mm Caspian steel pin 4.45 grams
45 STI titanium pin 2.36 grams
45 Colt steel pin 4.30 grams.


I was amazed at how easily a Series 70 1911 could be drop fired. Steel firing pins and concrete are a bad combination. 9mm sized pins and titanium construction will add several feet to your safe drop distance. I will be running Wolff XP springs and a Ti pin in all of my Series 70 type 1911’s.
I have attached an Excel spread sheet with the results. You will notice a lot of “Did Not Drop” entries. I saw no reason to drop test a particular combination of firing pin and flooring if it was not firing at higher distances or on harder flooring. I did several drops at various distances to get an idea of safe drop distances. This was to account for hard or sensitive primers. Each primed case was dropped only once. Just in case you were wondering, the pistol sustained significant damage. The muzzle is distorted from being dropped. I had to turn down the outside diameter of the barrel three times just to keep the slide from locking up. The muzzle, magwell, and grip safety have some serious blending in their future. Nothing sounds worse than a 1911 hitting the concrete from 10 feet!

 

[1911Tuner]

A Picture is worth...

Slamfire...thanks for the picture. It shows the reduced area of the bushing ID that the enlarged section of the barrel uses to force the bushing into hard contact with the slide bore. That reduced diameter section also grips the barrel.

Of course, slide bore ID and barrel OD dimensional differences...aka tolerance stacking...determine how hard that contact will be.