1911 barrel links

A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
What a hot, steamin' mess of meadow muffins!

I'm tinkering with a 1911 project pistol. After fitting the barrel to the slide, I istalled what I believe was a standard link, put the slide and barrel on a frame -- and couldn't retract the slide because the barrel isn't linking down enough to clear the slide. Another barrel in the same slide and frame function fine, so the issue probably isn't the slide or the frame.

So I pulled out my box of barrel links, found one I thought should be .003" sorter than the standard, installed it ... and had the same issue.

So I went to what I thought was a -.006" link ... same issue.

I don't remember how I sorted the links when I created the box. It's a flat box with a bunch of compartments, and I made up a roadmap that's in the box to show what length links are in which cubbyhole. Now that I'm questioning my sorting, I'm brought back to the unhappy realization that there is no standard to the way links are numbered or marked for length. One company uses -3, -6, -9 and +3, +6, and +9 to indicate plus or minus .003, .006, etc. Another company just uses 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 -- and their lengths are plus or minue increments of .003", they're plus or minus increments of .005".

So my project for this afternoon or evening is going to be taking all the links out of the box and measuring each one with an actual inside micrometer (not a caliper) to see what I have. And I hope I have one that works, because Brownells is mostly out of stock on 1911 barrel links.
 
U

Unclenick

Staff
The last three 1911 barrels I fitted, I made my own links out of 9/64" oil-hardening, non-distorting ground steel bar stock. Logic says to use 0.125" stock, as 9/64" is a thousandth of an eighth over the mid-point in the tolerance (0.1405"), but this has fit all three barrels I tried just fine. If I try to do a barrel someday that the bar stock I have does not fit, I will probably just take its thickness down a couple of thousandths with wet-dry paper on a piece of scrap plate glass.

I mark the work with layout dye and drill the hole for the pin in the barrel, stick the pin in and place an old link on it to get the general shape of the outline and shape the end that goes between the link lug legs and pin it in place. I then assemble the gun without the recoil spring or its plug and put the frame in a soft-jaw vice and stick a wood dowel into the muzzle to pry the back end of the barrel up into the locking lugs with. I made a steeply pointed scribe out of drill rod that fits the slide stop hole. It goes in and I reach in through the recoil spring plug hole with a wire hook and swing the blank link against the scribe to mark an arc the second hole's center lies on. I then take the work back out and drill it on the scribe line a couple of thousandths over pin diameter and shape the rest by filing.

It is slow work, and if you were a working gunsmith doing it for others, you'd never be able to charge enough to recover the cost of your time. But for my own guns, I get a perfect fit. The un-heat-treated steel is really strong enough, but I usually soak it in a torch flame and quench it and then draw back at 800-850°F in my knife oven to get about the hardness of a hammer head. It won't wear measurably then, but won't be brittle, either.
 
H

HiBC

New member
I'm not sure what all you have.There are some dimensions to verify because sometimes these parts have "fitting steel" .
Hopefully you have your Kunhausen to look up the dimensions.
If your frame is new,there is the vertical flat surface that the barrel underlug stops against. There is a correct dimension from the slide stop pin/hole to that surface. Check it.
There is also a correct dimension from the link pin hole to the rear face of the barrel underlug.
Under recoil,these two surfaces (the vertical face in the frame,and the vertical face of the barrel underlug) come into contact. That is what stops the linkdown process,and the barrel/slide should be unlocked. Any extra steel here interrupts the link down process. Also ,it is correct to have a fillet/radius at the root of the the barrel underlug and the barrel. Its not a good place for a sharp corner/stress riser. Check to make sure there is enough chamfer on the frame to clear this radius. Also make sure the "feet" of the barrel underlug don't bottom out in the frame mortise ,stopping linkdown.

You also want to make sure the slide stop pin,when passed through the link does not interfere with the barrel underlug when the link swings through its full travel.

The link and lockup on a 1911 have a lot more subtle genius going than many folks realize.

And note the link is not what holds the barrel and slide together in lockup. The link pulls the barrel down during linkdown,and the link positions the barrel in link up,but the barrel underlug coming to rest on the slide stop pin is what holds the barrel in lockup.

Study Kunhausen on "timing". At the point the barrel and frame vertical recoil surfaces come together,linkdiwn is complete. At that event,there needs to be clearance between the barrel and slide lugs. I forget the exact number,but you should be able to slip a .010 or .012 wire between the slide and barrel at full linkdown.

You really do not want the barrel and slide lugs to clash during the dynamics of firing. Damage will occur.

Consider, the frame and barrel recoil surfaces must meet,at the same time linkdown brings the underside of the barrel to rest on the frame saddle.

You don't want the link to do the job of limiting rearward travel of the barrel.
A short link would do that.
You don't want the link lifting the barrel underlug up off of the slide stop pin at full lockup. Thats too long.
 
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A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
HiBC said:
I'm not sure what all you have.There are some dimensions to verify because sometimes these parts have "fitting steel" .
Hopefully you have your Kunhausen to look up the dimensions.
If your frame is new,there is the vertical flat surface that the barrel underlug stops against. There is a correct dimension from the slide stop pin/hole to that surface. Check it.
There is also a correct dimension from the link pin hole to the rear face of the barrel underlug.
Click to expand...
It's a Para-Ordnance barrel, with the Clark-Para ramp, and a Brand X frame that was cut for the para ramp by the manufacturer. Kuhnhausen has no dimensions that apply and, of course, the Ordnance Department blueprints don't apply.

Under recoil,these two surfaces (the vertical face in the frame,and the vertical face of the barrel underlug) come into contact. That is what stops the linkdown process,and the barrel/slide should be unlocked.
Click to expand...
Inapplicable. Tha Clark-Para ramped barrels have an entirely different surface that stops the barrel's rearward travel.

The link and lockup on a 1911 have a lot more subtle genius going than many folks realize.

And note the link is not what holds the barrel and slide together in lockup. The link pulls the barrel down during linkdown,and the link positions the barrel in link up,but the barrel underlug coming to rest on the slide stop pin is what holds the barrel in lockup.
Click to expand...
I am aware of all that, and more. This ain't my first rodeo.

I didn't post to ask for advice. I posted to comment on the fact that even such mundane items as 1911 barrel links are sold out at Brownells. Just making the observation.

Along with the observation that various makers of non-standard barrel links all have their own numbering systems, and they don't match up. Which makes things difficult for a hobbyist who wants to maintain a small stash of non-standard links and have them in some semblance of organization.
 
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H

HiBC

New member
OK. Same idea,I would not count on the Clark-Para cut to be in the right place.

It ain't my first rodeo,either.

As I recall,if you go to the Schuemann barrel website,look under "Documentation" you might find a section that discusses Clark/Para ramps and Wilson Nowlin Ramps and how to measure from the slide stop pin hole to the recoil surface.

I had a similar problem long ago with a Clark/Para 38 Super ramped barrel. Its a full radius so its easy to make the cut in the frame with an end mill.Its either a 3/8 or 7/16,as I recall.


If these recoil stop surfaces are not in the right place,you won't get full linkdown.

Good luck!

I just did a quick search for "1911 barrel link sizes"

This will get you Clark's chart (maybe)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/db/78/d1db78c7d5b52eecc857e4fd9ea780e3.jpg

And you will probably find what you need to know here:

http://schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Schuemann Instruction manual.pdf
 
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S

Scorch

New member
I ordered a bag of barrel links drom EGW a few weeks ago and received them. Might want to check their site.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
This little debacle gave me a reason to reorganize my barrel links. I had them in a flat box that has 13 compartments. If you look at all the link lengths that have been offered by Marvel, King's, and now EGW through the years, 13 compartments isn't enough, so I moved up to a slightly larger small parts box with 17 compartments. And I decided (wisely, as it turned out) not to trust the markings on them, since both Marvel and EGW use a single digit ... but their numbers don't correspond to the same length link. So as I transferred them I measured each link with an inside micrometer.

What I found was that several unmarked links, that I had foolishly assumed were standard, were not standard. And a couple with numbers stamped on them didn't match up to either the King's or EGW length for that number link. So I now have everything sorted by actual, measured length and properly stowed. Maybe now I can get back to tinkering with guns.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
Scorch said:
Link lengths are the distance between the two holes, not the length top to bottom.
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I know, but I don't have a micrometer that can lock onto the canter of a hole, so I did the math and figured out the out-to-out distance for each center-to-center link length. Just take the center-to-center dimension and add half the diameter of each hole.
 
S

Sarge

New member
Condolences, Aguila Blanca. A Part Purgatory, not unlike the one you are suffering through now, resulted in me only keeping Wilson links. The few used ones I still have are taped to a card with the measurement marked on it. My method of measurement is the same as yours.

Somewhere in my gun toolbox are a couple of bits that are a near exact fit for the upper and lower holes in a 1911 barrel link.

I measure both bits for diameter and divide that in half.

Then insert the shank end of the bits and measure outside to outside on the bits.

Subtract the 'half diameter' of both bits from the outside-to-outside measurement.

That will put you very, very close to the actual distance between the centers of those holes.
 
S

Sarge

New member
Aguila Blanca said:
I tried using a caliper, but the tips aren't a true knife edge so inside readings on holes with small radii aren't accurate. I broke down and made Jeff Bezos a few cents richer by buying an actual inside micrometer. It was similar to this one and about the same price, but mine didn't come in a nice, wood box:

https://www.amazon.com/MLMLH-Inside...icrometer&qid=1601993722&s=industrial&sr=1-57
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That's pretty slick and at a decent price. One could actually use that to get a basic groove diameter at the muzzle, at least in barrels with directly opposing grooves.

I'll probably keep using my drill shank method for 1911 links mostly because I'm getting to be an old dog who, on some days, barely remembers how to do the old tricks ;)
 
D

dyl

New member
Bob Dunlap (now w/AGI videos) used to have us make our links and harden them.
Click to expand...

Speaking of Bob Dunlap, I recently learned he passed away December 2019. I had no idea.
 
U

Unclenick

Staff
AB,

That's strange. It goes straight to the product for me. On their index page, click on "Measuring Tools" and then on "Calipers and Attachments" and then on "Centerline Gauge" (next to last).
 
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