4thHorseman
New member
In you opinion , what seems to be the Achillies Heel of the 1911/1991A1 semi auto? The part that seems to fail the most. The one part if you could change to make it last longer, you would.
1911 Achillies Heel
- Thread starter 4thHorseman
- Start date
The link. Not normally known to break but get a spare w/pin as wear will be detrimental to accuracy.
A Dwyer Group Gripper with spares would be my recommendation to make any 1911 more accurate for a minimal investment.
Peters Stahl made a linkless conversion but this has faded into history.
A Dwyer Group Gripper with spares would be my recommendation to make any 1911 more accurate for a minimal investment.
Peters Stahl made a linkless conversion but this has faded into history.
Inspector Callahan
New member
In a recent American Handgunner, Larry Vickers commented on both the extractor and the plunger tube.
One weak point was created by modern makers to save pennies. Few if any put the little cut in the mainspring plug. This was meant to allow the spring to be "screwed" into the plug so the plug won't fly if it gets loose when disassembling the gun.
Most of the other weak points mentioned are also the result of mistakes and cost cutting on modern production guns or the use of hot ammo that the gun was not designed for. They rarely occur on original GI pistols.
Jim
Most of the other weak points mentioned are also the result of mistakes and cost cutting on modern production guns or the use of hot ammo that the gun was not designed for. They rarely occur on original GI pistols.
Jim
Mike Irwin
Staff
If you have one of the guns with a "collet" or fingered bushing, REPLACE IT!
I've seen more 1911s tied up do to that stupid piece than anything else.
I've seen more 1911s tied up do to that stupid piece than anything else.
Three things that show the gun's age:
1) The swinging link. Hot handloads, +P ammo, 10mm Auto and .40/.45 Super can stretch these with a quickness.
2) The annoying stake-on plunger tube.
3) The rampless barrel of the original design, which hampers feed reliability with JHP's, and prevents ramp polishing on newer alloy-framed guns.
(okay, #4 would be the dinky staked-on front sight)
All these are corrected in one modern 1911 derivative or another, thankfully.
1) The swinging link. Hot handloads, +P ammo, 10mm Auto and .40/.45 Super can stretch these with a quickness.
2) The annoying stake-on plunger tube.
3) The rampless barrel of the original design, which hampers feed reliability with JHP's, and prevents ramp polishing on newer alloy-framed guns.
(okay, #4 would be the dinky staked-on front sight)
All these are corrected in one modern 1911 derivative or another, thankfully.
I have an Ithaca 1911 that saw service in WWII, the only parts I ever replaced have been the springs, other than that it has all original parts. I have a total of 30 1911's from various makers and in the past 30 years I've only had 1 part malfunction and that was an ejector off of one of my Colt 70 series.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
The part that fails most? Cheap magazines, unless you get lucky. (I have been lucky but see an awful lot of people having mag problems.)
It amazes me that in nearly 100 years of R&D, even the latest, most expensive Kimbers, SA's, Wilson's, and Les Baer's can't match the reliability of a Glock or HK. To spend a grand on a pistol that should be taken to the 'smith before you even shoot it for "reliability upgrades" is a sham.
So, I would say that the biggest Achilles Heel is that they aren't a Glock 21 or HK USP45.
I love 1911's, sweetest range and race guns I have ever shot were a Wilson CQB and some various Kimbers. Perfect triggers. However, if Glocks can be PERFECTLY reliable (no mods needed to go BANG every time for thousands upon thousands of rounds), and HK's can do the same, then 1911's that cost TWICE as much should be at least as reliable.
I guess it's just a flawed design that...well, by design, cannot be perfect.
I love to shoot 'em, but I'd feel just a little foolish to spend a grand on a gorgeous Kimber or Springfield and not be able to completely trust my life to it if I had to.
I guess it's like having a Lamborghini. You don't buy one and count on it to start every time, that's why you keep a Honda (or whatever) that you know will always be there when you need it. Sure is pretty to look at and play with, though.
Am I just looking at the Lambo and wishing it would climb mountains? Are these fancy 1911's just not meant to be self-defense reliable? I guess the sweet triggers and accuracy and pretty looks give reliability the back seat.
So, I would say that the biggest Achilles Heel is that they aren't a Glock 21 or HK USP45.
I love 1911's, sweetest range and race guns I have ever shot were a Wilson CQB and some various Kimbers. Perfect triggers. However, if Glocks can be PERFECTLY reliable (no mods needed to go BANG every time for thousands upon thousands of rounds), and HK's can do the same, then 1911's that cost TWICE as much should be at least as reliable.
I guess it's just a flawed design that...well, by design, cannot be perfect.
I love to shoot 'em, but I'd feel just a little foolish to spend a grand on a gorgeous Kimber or Springfield and not be able to completely trust my life to it if I had to.
I guess it's like having a Lamborghini. You don't buy one and count on it to start every time, that's why you keep a Honda (or whatever) that you know will always be there when you need it. Sure is pretty to look at and play with, though.
Am I just looking at the Lambo and wishing it would climb mountains? Are these fancy 1911's just not meant to be self-defense reliable? I guess the sweet triggers and accuracy and pretty looks give reliability the back seat.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
SVTNate, I don't think you really know what your about here.
In the almost 100 Years of pistol designing... There have been many new designs. All of them DIFFERENT, but none of them BETTER than the 1911. New 1911A1 pistols fire accuratly and reliably with a track record of problems similar to if not better than your beloved Glock.
The myth of 1911s being a lesser handgun is total horse-pucky.
Compair it to a Lamborgini? Not quite.
More like your good old JEEP. It can do anything, takes a lot of abuse... needs some servicing once in awhile, but YEARS later, it still there... grinding away at its toil with out complaint.
Its funny that the same people that berate the 1911 for needing to be cleaned once in awhile are the same guys that stand up for that POS AR-1 design that requires a CONSTANT cleaning religeon.
One last thing.
I know a few guys across the US that actually own Lambos. One of them has 2. Not one of them own a single Honda.
In the almost 100 Years of pistol designing... There have been many new designs. All of them DIFFERENT, but none of them BETTER than the 1911. New 1911A1 pistols fire accuratly and reliably with a track record of problems similar to if not better than your beloved Glock.
The myth of 1911s being a lesser handgun is total horse-pucky.
Compair it to a Lamborgini? Not quite.
More like your good old JEEP. It can do anything, takes a lot of abuse... needs some servicing once in awhile, but YEARS later, it still there... grinding away at its toil with out complaint.
Its funny that the same people that berate the 1911 for needing to be cleaned once in awhile are the same guys that stand up for that POS AR-1 design that requires a CONSTANT cleaning religeon.
One last thing.
I know a few guys across the US that actually own Lambos. One of them has 2. Not one of them own a single Honda.
Well I wanted to make it simple, but my dad has several colleagues who own Ferrari's and Diablos. They keep a 7 Series or S Class, because the exotics WILL be sidelined once in a while. How many people carry a 1911, and keep a Glock just for range and competition use? It's almost always the other way around.
My beloved Glock? I don't own any Glocks. I sold the one I had, and I will most likely never buy another. But I know and respect their reliability. Are you telling me that a Kimber at 10,000 rounds will still be like new, using all the original parts? How many people here have posted nice pics of pretty 1911's, saying "The gun was getting pretty loose after 10,000 rounds, so I sent it in for some work and got it refinished at the same time"? I see posts like that regarding the 1911's on several boards.
I am not saying they are unreliable. I am saying that they are NOT as reliable as something like a Glock.
I understand that a more accurate gun has tighter tolerances, and that's acceptable. Still, when you read about the "reliability packages" that people get for their brand new 1911's just so they can count on the gun for CCW...it shouldn't be that way.
Hell, read this post. Obviously, there are problems. Start a post about Glocks, and you will get "only problem is running out of ammo". You know it, I know it.
All I am saying is that when you pay over a grand for a handgun, you should expect it to, at the very least, go 20,000 rounds out of the box and still work like new.
You're right, I don't know a whole lot about 1911's. I am only 21, and I haven't been shooting long. However, I'm on a lot of boards a lot of the time, and I am just calling it the way I see it.
I WILL SAY ONE LAST TIME - I am not calling ANY 1911 unreliable. Just some disappointment that even the most expensive 1911's still have these problems as described above. Just using Glock as an example of a realible gun. I'm not what you would call a "Glockaholic".
Not trying to start a fight, it's just what I see in other people's experiences. I am itching for a SA Loaded or a Kimber of some sort, sometime down the road once I have all the HK's that I want and I check out the P220
My beloved Glock? I don't own any Glocks. I sold the one I had, and I will most likely never buy another. But I know and respect their reliability. Are you telling me that a Kimber at 10,000 rounds will still be like new, using all the original parts? How many people here have posted nice pics of pretty 1911's, saying "The gun was getting pretty loose after 10,000 rounds, so I sent it in for some work and got it refinished at the same time"? I see posts like that regarding the 1911's on several boards.
I am not saying they are unreliable. I am saying that they are NOT as reliable as something like a Glock.
I understand that a more accurate gun has tighter tolerances, and that's acceptable. Still, when you read about the "reliability packages" that people get for their brand new 1911's just so they can count on the gun for CCW...it shouldn't be that way.
Hell, read this post. Obviously, there are problems. Start a post about Glocks, and you will get "only problem is running out of ammo". You know it, I know it.
All I am saying is that when you pay over a grand for a handgun, you should expect it to, at the very least, go 20,000 rounds out of the box and still work like new.
You're right, I don't know a whole lot about 1911's. I am only 21, and I haven't been shooting long. However, I'm on a lot of boards a lot of the time, and I am just calling it the way I see it.
I WILL SAY ONE LAST TIME - I am not calling ANY 1911 unreliable. Just some disappointment that even the most expensive 1911's still have these problems as described above. Just using Glock as an example of a realible gun. I'm not what you would call a "Glockaholic".
Not trying to start a fight, it's just what I see in other people's experiences. I am itching for a SA Loaded or a Kimber of some sort, sometime down the road once I have all the HK's that I want and I check out the P220
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Every automatic pistol is a colaboration of compromises. Auto pistols are only as reliable as the consistancy of the Ammo used and the spring tension of 2 critical springs. One to push the slide forward and one to push the next round up in the magazine.
So to say one autopistol is utterly reliable is to really say that your autopistol is reliable with your given ammunition selection.
The 1911 is a very reliable little machine in my eyes because I feed it ammunition that I know is of a good quality and proven track record.
I did have a couple bobbles yesterday when shooting... Cause was one faulty magazine. With 4 other mags there was ZERO problems. Now, some might say that the 1911 was faulty. Bad Magazines are bad magazines. Had nothing to do with the gun. A bad magazine will bring down ANY handgun.
I mention this because I have seen them choke Glocks, Sigs, and even the mighty HK USP. I've even seen bad mags choke 1200 dollar Wilson Combat pistols, a Les Baer, and an Ed Brown. There is a long list, Including a brand new HK MP5.
That was a problem back in 1808 and its a problem in 2001. The DESIGN of the 1911 is a classic example and will never be out dated, or go obsolete... Computers and Guns are very different in this regard. As I said before, there have been other designs since, but there has not been a BETTER design.
So to say one autopistol is utterly reliable is to really say that your autopistol is reliable with your given ammunition selection.
The 1911 is a very reliable little machine in my eyes because I feed it ammunition that I know is of a good quality and proven track record.
I did have a couple bobbles yesterday when shooting... Cause was one faulty magazine. With 4 other mags there was ZERO problems. Now, some might say that the 1911 was faulty. Bad Magazines are bad magazines. Had nothing to do with the gun. A bad magazine will bring down ANY handgun.
I mention this because I have seen them choke Glocks, Sigs, and even the mighty HK USP. I've even seen bad mags choke 1200 dollar Wilson Combat pistols, a Les Baer, and an Ed Brown. There is a long list, Including a brand new HK MP5.
That was a problem back in 1808 and its a problem in 2001. The DESIGN of the 1911 is a classic example and will never be out dated, or go obsolete... Computers and Guns are very different in this regard. As I said before, there have been other designs since, but there has not been a BETTER design.
To be fair, though, I do think that the 1911 design is less-than ideal for feeding JHP ammo reliably (which is understandable, considering the age of the design).
Whether because of the lack of a ramped barrel or because modern manufacturers make the gun "too tight" for "extreme" accuracy, modern out-of-box 1911 clones from most manufacturers seem to suffer from some reliability issue with some JHP.
Some of the newer designs (various Berettas, Glocks, H&Ks and SIGs) were designed with the JHP also in mind, so they do seem to have greater theoretical and practical reliability with JHPs IN GENERAL.
Skorzeny
Whether because of the lack of a ramped barrel or because modern manufacturers make the gun "too tight" for "extreme" accuracy, modern out-of-box 1911 clones from most manufacturers seem to suffer from some reliability issue with some JHP.
Some of the newer designs (various Berettas, Glocks, H&Ks and SIGs) were designed with the JHP also in mind, so they do seem to have greater theoretical and practical reliability with JHPs IN GENERAL.
Skorzeny
SVTNate-
Here's some food for thought if you're convicined that any mechanical device is flawless, in this case, the Glock:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81966&highlight=Glock+problems
I don't think that Glocks or HKs aren't good firearms, in fact I like both of them. But, no mechanical device is foolproof. You made claims in the direction that the Glocks will function with complete 100% reliability. You also made a claim that a quality firearm could "at the very least, go 20,000 rounds out of the box and still work like new." Did you fire 20000+ rounds out of your Glock without a single failure? No flame intended, just a question
Dan
Here's some food for thought if you're convicined that any mechanical device is flawless, in this case, the Glock:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81966&highlight=Glock+problems
I don't think that Glocks or HKs aren't good firearms, in fact I like both of them. But, no mechanical device is foolproof. You made claims in the direction that the Glocks will function with complete 100% reliability. You also made a claim that a quality firearm could "at the very least, go 20,000 rounds out of the box and still work like new." Did you fire 20000+ rounds out of your Glock without a single failure? No flame intended, just a question
Dan
Smurfslayer
New member
George said ...there has never been a BETTER firearm...
Better is a relative term. Everyone's idea of the optimum firearm is different. I'd submit that the 1911 isn't the OPTIMUM CCW piece because it's a single action - but that is something that I personally prefer (traditional) double action.
It's tough to weed out the opinion from the fact on the internet, because, unless you witness it with your own eyes, can you REALLY trust it as fact????
One of the remarks above said that each design has it's comprimises. Nothing more true can be said...
Better is a relative term. Everyone's idea of the optimum firearm is different. I'd submit that the 1911 isn't the OPTIMUM CCW piece because it's a single action - but that is something that I personally prefer (traditional) double action.
It's tough to weed out the opinion from the fact on the internet, because, unless you witness it with your own eyes, can you REALLY trust it as fact????
One of the remarks above said that each design has it's comprimises. Nothing more true can be said...
My 1911 is relaible enough for me. I have seen 1911s, Glocks, HKs, Sigs, Tauri, Berettas, Rugers, and CZs jam. Hell I have seen an AK 47 jam! I have seen a revolver break! Nothing is perfect. This search for super reliability sometimes gets a bit silly. Start attending IDPA, IPSC, and steel matches, and I will guarentee that you will get to see just about everything jam.
So your CCW gun only malfunctions once every 20,000 rounds, vs. mine which malfunctions every 10,000. Whoop de freaking do. Next time I expend 20,000 rounds in a gunfight I will be in big trouble! But wait, the gun magazines say that Glocks work after being buried in radioactive mud, digested by a giant squid, and frozen in a block of komodo dragon saliva.
I was curious, and so I haven't cleaned my 1911 for the last little while. I usually keep it spotless, but I wanted to see how many rounds it could go before it started to choke. Finally at about 800 rounds of soft lead reloads the slide didn't close all the way, once. I tap and racked it and finished the stage I was on. Guess I'll have to clean it now.
But odds are, as a carry gun it should be able to expend the 18 rounds of ammunition that I have on my person at any given time.
Shoot lots of guns. Find the one that works best for you.
And back to the actual topic of this thread, I think that the plunger is a bit of a pain, but nothing to serious. And I'm sure that the swinging link could be modernized. An external extractor might be better too. See even I don't think my gun is perfect.
Nothing is perfect. This search for super reliability sometimes gets a bit silly. Start attending IDPA, IPSC, and steel matches, and I will guarentee that you will get to see just about everything jam.So your CCW gun only malfunctions once every 20,000 rounds, vs. mine which malfunctions every 10,000. Whoop de freaking do. Next time I expend 20,000 rounds in a gunfight I will be in big trouble! But wait, the gun magazines say that Glocks work after being buried in radioactive mud, digested by a giant squid, and frozen in a block of komodo dragon saliva.
I was curious, and so I haven't cleaned my 1911 for the last little while. I usually keep it spotless, but I wanted to see how many rounds it could go before it started to choke. Finally at about 800 rounds of soft lead reloads the slide didn't close all the way, once. I tap and racked it and finished the stage I was on. Guess I'll have to clean it now.
But odds are, as a carry gun it should be able to expend the 18 rounds of ammunition that I have on my person at any given time.
Shoot lots of guns. Find the one that works best for you.
And back to the actual topic of this thread, I think that the plunger is a bit of a pain, but nothing to serious. And I'm sure that the swinging link could be modernized. An external extractor might be better too. See even I don't think my gun is perfect.