1903 Springfield value and things to look for

[dakota.potts]

Had an interesting conversation with my machine tool instructor the other day. He knows I'm into guns heavily and he has a large number himself but pretty much just for hunting. So when he walked up and asked "if my rifle I thought was a Mauser is actually a Springfield, it would be worth less, right?" I told him the opposite was true and he told me he might be interested in selling it. It's his brother's that he's storing and he's trying to convince his brother to sell it. My dad has always wanted one and is interested in making an offer.

I'm supposed to go over there next week and take a look at it and advise my dad on an offer after checking out the rifle. What am I looking for in a good rifle and how to make a judgment on what would be a fair offer on it?

My teacher said his brother previously had an offer on the rifle but declined it because the prospective buyer wanted to remove the action and sporterize it and the current owner did not want to see it altered. Our intentions were to keep it in completely original condition other than maybe cleaning it up a little. If the rifle does turn out to be as described, I've been asked to write a polite letter to the owner stating my plan to keep the rifle original for collecting purposes and make an offer, then we'll see how it goes from there. Any knowledge on this rifle would be appreciated

 

[emcon5]

if my rifle I thought was a Mauser is actually a Springfield, it would be worth less, right?" I told him the opposite was true and he told me he might be interested in selling it.

Really depends on what it is, and what Mauser you are talking about. A matching WW2 K98 Bringback would be worth over $1000 these days, and a low number beater Springfield could only be worth a couple hundred bucks as a wall hanger.

Seems like 1903s tend to be in the $600-$800 range these days, depending on condition.

 

[agtman]

Quote: * * * Really depends on what it is, * * * a low number beater Springfield could only be worth a couple hundred bucks as a wall hanger.
Seems like 1903s tend to be in the $600-$800 range these days, depending on condition.

Agree on the Springfield comments, if he's talking about a 1903.

Though it gets debated, low-numbered Springfields (below ser.# 800,000, IIRC) are considered "unsafe" to shoot, even with low pressure cast loads.

That, along with the rifle's over-all condition and a seller's stubbornness, can put the price asked anywhere from reasonable to the crack-smoking tariffs seen on GunJoker.

 

[SIGSHR]

Curious as to how someone could confuse a Mauser with a Springfield, there are enough references out there even before the Internet started.
An important criterion is "arsenal correct" vs. rebuilds, M1903s-like M-1 Garands were in service for so long, so many saw hard use, they were repaired and rebuilt as needed. I have a 1918 Springfield Armory M1903, all correct but it is in a WWII vintage "scant grip" stock. Period correct but not arsenal correct,
but I am not going to "restore" it.

 

[T. O'Heir]

Nearly every M1 Rifle(Carbine or '03) that is "arsenal correct" these days was made that way by somebody with too much time and money. Such a rifle is still a rebuilt rifle with rebuilt rifle value.
"...It's his brother's that he's storing..." And he's trying to sell you something that isn't his to sell. Don't even think about it without talking directly to the brother.
"...asked to write a polite letter to the owner..." Absolute nonsense. If he sells it, it's not his property to say anything about.
"...Any knowledge on this rifle would be appreciated..." What rifle? All you 've said is "a Mauser" and "a Springfield". A Win M70 is "a Mauser" too. Need some details.

 

[MountainBear]

Nearly every M1 Rifle(Carbine or '03) that is "arsenal correct" these days was made that way by somebody with too much time and money. Such a rifle is still a rebuilt rifle with rebuilt rifle value.
"...It's his brother's that he's storing..." And he's trying to sell you something that isn't his to sell. Don't even think about it without talking directly to the brother.
"...asked to write a polite letter to the owner..." Absolute nonsense. If he sells it, it's not his property to say anything about.
"...Any knowledge on this rifle would be appreciated..." What rifle? All you 've said is "a Mauser" and "a Springfield". A Win M70 is "a Mauser" too. Need some details.

First, sometimes yes, sometimes no on the rebuilds. Some have actually flown together their entire existence, but some have been rebuilt to "correct" grade. Not sure how the market is up there in our northern neighbor, but here in the U.S., people still pay a premium for "correct" grade rifles, especially Garands.
Second, I completely agree. Be very sure who actually owns the rifle, and deal with them. Get a bill of sale.
Third, I actually like idea of the letter. It is his property now, he has no need to sell it. True, after he sells it, he has no real say. But I think the letter is actually a cool idea.

Chances are its a mixmaster, even as a 1903 or 03a3. Not a big deal. A few things to look for. Check to see if there are extra holes. It should not be drilled and tapped for a scope mount or a side mount peep sight unless it is an 03a4 (which will mean the roll stamp will be off center on the front ring, so it can be seen with a scope mount) or something else rare. There are two places to look to determine if its unique or rare. The first would be to see if the serial number is electro-penciled onto the top of the bolt (visible when the bolt is closed). The second place would be to look at the muzzle and see if there is a small star mark. Either of these two things would indicate that the rifle was either a factory sporter (which it doesn't sound like it is, from what you've posted) or a national match. Beyond that, you can tear it apart later to see how "correct" it is, but for a good shooter grade 1903, expect to pay between $600 and $1000.

Serial numbers considered in the "safe" range are above 800,000 for springfield armory 1903's, above 285,506 for Rock Island Arsenal 1903's and all 03a3's from Remington and Smith-Corona. Beware renumbered low number receivers. Some people put a 1 in front of the serial number to fool people. 1903 Springfield Armory rifles serial numbers stopped at 1,275,766 and Rock Island stopped at 319,921. There were no 2 million range serial numbers from any manufacturer.

 

[highpower3006]

There are so many things to consider when trying to establish a value on a '03 that it would make a large volume in itself.

First, low number Springfields are not in high demand and will not bring very much money on the market. Unless, of course, they are still in original condition. Here in the US, there is a very large number of low number Springfields that were rebuilt during WWII and then put into war reserves and were consequently sold after the war through the DCM. Typically they have new barrels dated 1942 and are in 03-A3 pattern stocks. To me, they are worth their value in parts and that is about $300-350.

Second, most Springfields have been rebuilt at least once, if not more times, so a original rifle is rare and commands a lot more money than a decent, but not original rifle.

If the rifle in question has a serial number above 800,000 and is in decent arsenal rebuilt condition, ie, it has not been drilled for a scope or aftermarket rear sight, it has a value of between $600-800.

If it is an original high number rifle it can easily be worth a grand or more. If it just happens to be an arsenal national match rifle, it can bring as much as $3000-4000.

I have been collecting '03's for about thirty years and I have personally seen very few original rifles. They are out there, but they are few and far between.

Realistically, if you could get some good pictures, in focus and taken in good in good light, it would be far easier to give you a reasonable estimate of it's value.

 

[dakota.potts]

A couple of posters have identified correctly that I don't have very much information about the rifle, which is why I actually started the thread. I know nothing about the rifle other than a fuzzy cell phone picture. I knew that there was a wide arena of knowledge on the Springfield 1903s, but I didn't know it was this wide. I wanted to go in having done a little research. To be honest, as long as it's safe to shoot and a half way decent shooter, we wouldn't be looking for anything particularly rare or even 100% original. In that regard, even being a rebuilt shooter wouldn't be the worst thing as, in this case, being a rare original rifle probably won't greatly enhance the experience.

As far as speaking to the original owner, I will of course make sure I can speak to the original owner and get a signed bill of sale going both ways if it turns out to be agreeable terms.

When I go to see the rifle, I will ask if I can take some pictures of it for further information

 

[RC20]

You need to get make and serial number (1903 can be Springfield, Rock Island (early and latter sn ) as well as Remington and Smith Corona in A1 and A3.

That gives someone a starting point on evaluating. Just a 1903 is like saying I am looking at a chevy.

Its helpful if you have the Throat Erosion and Muzzle Erosion tool if you are serious about condition.

While ME can be roughly judged by a bullet fit, TE and be from fine to so far gone (with a good ME) that you can't get a bullet to stabilize.

 

[crashdummy]

I have a Rock Island low numbered 03 with the original RIA 1910 barrel.
Blued, not parkerized. The problem is that a previous owner sanded and nicely refinished the stock.
Beautiful rifle, but no collector value due to the refinished stock, and as a low number, I elect not to shoot it.

 

[dakota.potts]

Went to take a look at it today. Looked like it was well taken care of and largely unused. Good rifling from what I can see. Wood and metal in good condition and original sights (though I never realized how difficult those sights were to see). One large ding on top of the receiver, almost looks like a file was used to test the hardness or something.

Unfortunately it is a Springfield Armory with a 48X,XXX serial number. Does that mean it's definitely a no go as any kind of shooter?

If the rifle is unsafe to shoot, what's usually done to them? Are they ever deactivated for drill rifles or anything? That part is just out of my own curiosity

 

[crashdummy]

low number receiver. The questionable area is the single heat treatment used.
Some failed in service use prompting the investigation into the heat treatment process. A double heat treatment was then used in all the high number receivers. Many of these low number receivers were given new bolts and rebarreled for WWII. What is the date on the barrel ? Does it have the old or a newer nickel steel bolt ? At this point I would consider it a wall hanger

 

[dakota.potts]

It had the straight (as opposed to swept back) bolt which I'm told is original and considered unsafe in these rifles. Too bad. I'd never gotten the opportunity to handle one of these rifles before and I definitely see the attraction. Very smooth action and good feeling rifle. Not too heavy. Shorter than I was expecting

 

[crashdummy]

Even if we don't dare to shoot them, there is pride in ownership.
Save them from the scrap pile, as they are history.
Love the old militarys !

 

[tahunua001]

as far as I know there is nothing unsafe about the straight compared to swept-back bolts, it just means that it wasn't replaced with a remington bolt at some point during WWII, the unsafe has to do with the heat treatment process used to manufacture the receivers. serial numbers below 800,000 with springfield made rifles and 285,000 for rock island armory rifles are considered unsafe, with that said, I had a springfield 500,000 that never did explode on me, it is a total crapshoot if it actually is bad or not and there's no way of testing, either you assume the risk or don't and accept the consequences if it does blow.

all springfield MK1, A1, A3s and A4s are considered safe, anything made by smith corona or remington are considered safe. as for all 1903s are rebuilt? no, they were serviced at an arsenal. if they don't have an arsenal stamp and are a mix master THEN they are a rebuilt rifle, otherwise, they were repaired by the government and are worth every bit what a period correct rifle is. your odds of getting an all parts matching rifle these days are pretty slim and the value is way higher than normal. it also means it didn't see much fighting as is worth less to a collector anyway.

 

[emcon5]

What is your goal? Are you looking for a rifle to shoot vintage service rifle matches, do you just want to a piece of history you can hang on the wall, or something in between?

If you just want a plinker you can take out and shoot occasionally, this could work, provided two things, you are aware of the low number receiver risk and accept it, and you handload and load accordingly.

If it was me, and the price was right (read, pretty low), I would shoot it occasionally using Hodgdon H4895 and their 60% rule for reduced loads.

You can keep the pressure pretty low, (like 15,000 PSI, compared to ~60,000 PSI for factory loads).

 

[dakota.potts]

The goal would have been for a shooter. I remembered that the rifle is one my dad has always wanted since he was a boy and thought there might be an opportunity to get a decent shooting model - nothing special. As much as I'm into firearms and related study, my dad is the kind of person to just enjoy having a historical rifle that he can take out and shoot once every couple months or weekends. I didn't feel good about recommending the rifle based on the fact that the kind of research and commitment necessary (especially as far as reloading) is not something that matched the situation, so I did end up passing on the purchase

 

[emcon5]

With those goals in mind, probably the best decision.

 

[SIGSHR]

Is it a genuine Springfield or Remington or Rock Island? I bought a sporterized "M1903" a few years ago, turned out to be a National Ordnance receiver. Shoots well but more knowledgeable M1903 shooters consider those actions on a par with the bad vintages of Low Number M1903s.

 

[dakota.potts]

The receiver was marked Springfield Armory pretty clearly. I'm no expert so I don't know if receivers were ever made by anybody else and branded Springfield, but otherwise I don't see how I would have missed that