1893 Mauser-Surplus 8mm ammos OK?

[dfaugh]

OK, I've bought an 1893 Mauser ("small ring"), that was re-arsenaled at some point, in 8mm(.323)...Now the gun appears to be in very good to excellent condition (possible used little or not at all since re-arsenaled circa WWII), better than most of the 48s you see around...The person I bought it from said that domestic 8mm ammo should be OK (presumably lower pressure for safe use in raggedy old guns) but not to try the cheap surplus stuff (which I have bunch of, for my 48, which is probably NOT in as good shape overall, although action is pretty much mint). I would think, if it was shot after being re-arsenaled, it woulda been with higher pressure "newer" ammo, thus probably OK.

Opinions?

(Mind you, I'll probably try it, after I headspace it...BUT maybe from a distance of a few feet, gun pinned down,long sttring on trigger!)

 

[Gewehr98]

Rules of thumb.

Small Ring Mauser action (91,93,94,95,96) - Low Pressure rounds, ie. 7.65, 7x57, 6.5x55 Swedish, and variants of similar pressures based on these parent rounds. The action was never designed for those rounds with more "oomph", hence the introduction of the 98 Mauser action.

Large Ring Mauser action (98) - 8x57, .30-06, .308, and variants of similar pressures based on these parent rounds. Often modified by bolt face and magazine rail alterations to accept belted magnums, but I feel that's pushing it for the military 98 Mauser action.


Yes, U.S. commercial 8mm ammo is severely underloaded, to prevent blowing up the '88 Commission Rifles with their .318" bores. And I know Kimber sold Swedish Mausers rechambered to .308 Winchester, and people have been shooting them no problem. But that's a BIG leap of faith to run a bunch of surplus mil-spec 8mm through a small-ring Mauser, there's just not as much meat around the receiver ring and barrel shank as in it's big brother large-ring Mauser. And mil-spec (European) 8mm is assembled with pressures very close to our own .30-06 Springfield, very much exceeding U.S. SAAMI pressure limits.

Might I suggest handloading to a guaranteed lower pressure level, perhaps with some gas-checked cast bullets? There are several different cast 8mm bullets out there on the Web if you search. I'd hate like heck to read here on TFL later that somebody Kaboomed a small-ring Mauser and got a ride in an ambulance. This is from somebody who purposely exploded a late-war Carcano that had been rechambered to 8mm Mauser.

 

[Kharn]

You might want to check to make sure it really is .323", if its .318" you could have some very interesting results. If you have a gunsmith friend, have him slug the bore for you (basically he'd push a chunk of lead down the barrel and then can measure it with a micrometer to determine actual bore size).

Kharn

 

[dfaugh]

Last things first...I slugged the barrel myself, it is indeed .323...Actually, the gun looks "identical" to a 98k, in the sense that it has the "pistol grip stock", was told that was changed when re-arsenaled as well...
And, actually, one of the things that got me thinking this might be OK, was the fact that I've seen numerous small ring actions used on .308 guns(and if recollection serves, even at least one 30-06).
I could , of course, reload some rounds to lower pressure, but its really not a big deal, in that I don't need to even fire it...Its more a collector, I guess, anyway, I just do like to bang away with all my guns occasionally, what with cheap surplus ammo, its good fun. i do have operational 98k as well as a couple Mosins, an SKS etc. I'd just like to be able to shoot it, cheaply and easily, hence the question

 

[Ollie Krag]

Gehwer98 I have a carcano carbine re-chambered for 8mm is it not safe to shoot??

 

[Gewehr98]

Dfaugh

Take a look at that rifle of yours really closely, there is a small chance it's what's called a "small-ring" 98 Mauser. The G33/40 and small ring 98 carbines come to mind. They're rare, but out there. The quickest way to tell is to look at the bolt itself. In addition to the two front locking lugs, there's a third safety lug further back on the bolt that engages the back end of the receiver near the rear ring. The third lug was introduced with the stronger 98 Mauser action. Other differences include cock-on-opening, bigger rear bolt shroud with gas flange, and so forth.

Here's a good place to read up on some of the differences in the various Mauser actions:

http://www.gunsworld.com/mauser/kar98k_faq_us.html


Ollie, I shiver when I hear that there's another 8mm Carcano out there that hasn't been relegated to wallhanger status. To chamber the 8x57 Mauser round, the Italians had to make a significant relief cut in the front receiver ring to allow the longer 8mm round's bullet to fit in the magazine well, thereby weakening it. Maybe, just maybe, you could get away with a lifetime of shooting it using the underloaded US commercial 8mm ammo, but then there's that one time...

 

[Ollie Krag]

Gehwer I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this matter. Got too many other nice SAFE things to shoot. Thanks for the info. I saw a 88 comission rifle blow up on a shooter once and it was not a pretty sight! Thanks again!

 

[dfaugh]

OK, The link you gave, describes the gun exactly.....It is indeed German 1893, small ring (no extra lug, cock on close)...BUT it was re-arsenaled in Turkey, in 1940 (shoulda looked again at the markings, mentioned them, before i made the post!)...According to this web site, the actions were (re-) heat treated, when re-barrelled, to withstand the higher pressures of the 8mm cartridge...Nonetheless, who knows how well done it was (or if truly done at all!), and that was 60+ years ago....So, if I REALLY feel the need to shoot it, I guess we'll stick with low pressure commercial ammo, or I'll invest in some 8mm dies and roll my own!

Thanks for all the help!