12g or 20g

Chowder

New member
I recently sold some things I haven't used in years so that means I have some cash burning a hole in my pocket. I don't own a shotgun so I am going shopping soon. The only shotgun I have owned was a Mossburg 500 and it was reliable but didn't do much for me. I like the idea of a side by side or O/U better, they just feel solid and give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I would be using this for small game hunting (rabbit, grouse) and was wondering weather I should go for 12g or 20g. I saw a CZ over under for a good price as the BX/PX in 20g and it felt great. Light weight and handy.

So I guess my question boils down too, do I really need a 12 gauge? I am tempted just for the ammo selection and its so common. But I don't like to carry a larger gun if its really not necessary. Thanks in advance for any advice.
 

Virginian

New member
Dickinson 20 at Cabelas. Until you shoot a really good SxS you will never understand what all the fuss is about. That's a good one.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Do you need a12 ga?....

It all depends on what you plan to do. And how well you want to do it. And what compromises you are willing to accept to do it.

The bottom line is that ALL shotguns operate in the same approximate velocity range. There is an upper limit to shot speed, that when passed, patterns literally get "shot to hell".

To keep the ability of the gun to put shot on the target in a decent pattern, the only way to increase the "power" is to throw more shot. Which also has the benefit of a larger pattern.

So, it would seem that the "best" shotgun is the largest one you can comfortably manage. And that means 12ga, for most shooters.

BUT, there are many times when the "best" isn't any more useful than "good enough". And there are situations where things other than how much shot can be thrown determine what is best, as well.

Ammo choice, and cost. Size and weight of the gun itself. Recoil.

20ga is really fine for a whole lot of things, 20ga guns are normally built on frames that are smaller and lighter than 12ga guns. This means, in some people's hands there is a noticeable difference in ease and rapidity of handling.

3" 20ga shells can throw the same weight of shot as the standard 2 3/4" 12 ga. (of course, same mass, same speed, lighter gun means a difference in recoil).

Ammo availability, local to you. Regions where the 20ga is popular will have stores stocked better. Smaller places might only carry one or two different 20ga loads vs 4 or 7 (whatever) 12ga loadings if the 20ga isn't locally popular.

Lots of things to consider, these are only some. Some will advise, "get both" and point out the places where one serves better than the other. If you can afford it, the perfect solution to the dilemma, right?

The only issue with that (other than cost) is that if you own both a 12ga and a 20ga you must constantly be on guard against the "12/20 Burst".

Its not much of a concern if one is diligent about paying attention to which ammo is used, but could be a concern where the gun(s) might be used by others. If someone drops a 20ga shell into a 12ga gun, it will slide down the barrel and get stuck a ways ahead of the chamber. Put a 12ga shell in that chamber and bad things will happen!

This is why, traditionally, 20ga shells are bright colors (yellow, orange, etc) where 12ga shells are red, blue, green, black, etc. So you can see the difference easily. (not every ammo maker everywhere follows this rule, but most do).

I keep only two sizes of shotgun in my house, 12ga, and .410. For me, these do everything I ever wanted a shotgun to do. I have nothing against the 20ga, I just don't have any personal use for one.
 

Chowder

New member
Dickinson 20 at Cabelas. Until you shoot a really good SxS you will never understand what all the fuss is about. That's a good one.

I am sure you are absolutely right about understanding what the fuss is about. But I just looked those dicksons up and they are a bit too rich for my blood at this stage of my life. But I see no harm in adding one to my "things I really really really want" list :D

44amp, Thanks for the awesome reply, answered a lot of my question, and gave me more to think about. Of course the best place for me to think about these things are at the local gun shop :D
 

Noreaster

New member
Small game hunting with my son for the last five years I've observed him knock down more birds and rabbits with his 20 gauge than I have with my 12 gauge. His 20 being lighter, little less noise and less kick. I began to wonder why I carry the 12. Different story if your going after deer, ducks or turkey.
 

BigD_in_FL

Moderator
For rabbit/grouse, a 20 will do the job, be a little lighter for all-day carry, and hunting ammo is readily available.

I have the original Dickinson called the S&W Elite Gold; 6#6oz choked IC/M - mine is .009/.016 and with my 3/4oz reloads it SMOKES targets on the 5-stand and sporting courses, so birds and bunnies need to start trembling..........:D:D
 

Chowder

New member
I got myself a 20g today. Nothing fancy, just a SxS Stoeger uplander. It is the "supreme" model with a single trigger, shinier wood and a nicer rubber butt pad. I am not worried about the shiny wood but the single trigger is something I wanted. When I picked it up at the store it shouldered nicely I liked the double beads and it balanced well. Of course I had to avert my eyes when walking by the Brownings and Berettas and other fine Italian shotguns lol. But the Stoeger had a nice classic look to it and seemed solidly built.

When I got it home I cleaned and gave a closer inspection, and noticed a couple beads of metal left over from welding on the end of the channel the extractor ran through. I am new to these shot guns so I don't know the exact name for this part. So I took a fine file and smoothed it out and the final break in the action when the extractors are fully extended was much smoother. Anyway, Im rambling now.

I took it to the range and the trap range was closed for the day so I went over to an empty pistol range and set some clay's out on a stand. I meant to bring a large paper target to see how it patterned but that was in the garage lol. Over all it seemed to shoot well and each barrel pointed where I expected it too. Having only owned one pump shotgun in the past being and to get off 2 fast shots was nice. The look and feel of a side by side was just a blast too shoot also.

Of course Pic's or it didn't happen sooo...

bmmr.jpg


I think it looks nice under my Marlins on the wall.

6y4b.jpg


And maybe one day these two goons will fetch a bird for me.

pv25.jpg
 
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darkgael

New member
patterns

Using standard loads for each, a 12 gauge does not shoot a "bigger" pattern than a 20 gauge (pattern size is determined by choke and distance), it shoots a denser pattern because there is more shot in it.

Pete
 

BigD_in_FL

Moderator
Using standard loads for each, a 12 gauge does not shoot a "bigger" pattern than a 20 gauge (pattern size is determined by choke and distance), it shoots a denser pattern because there is more shot in it.

Assuming you started with a different payloads; however if both are 1oz loads, the pattern size and density SHOULD be the same
 

baddarryl

New member
This is an interesting thread as I put some rounds through a Winchester 120 pump 20ga today. First time I have shot a 20 in years and didn't do particularly well. I wondered if the pattern was smaller. It was apparently just me. :eek:
Going to use it for dove next week as my Rem 1100 12ga is not trustworthy at the moment. The old pump is!
 

Chowder

New member
Well I took my new shotgun out to find some critters today. Didn't see any unfortunately, although I was taunted relentlessly by an extremely nimble squirrel. On the way back, feeling defeated, I stumbled upon a sign of better things to come...

i11i.jpg
 

eastbank

New member
this is my favorit double barreled shotgun, a browning bss in 20ga made in 1977. it deadly on small game. eastbank.
 

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gav1230

New member
I'm a pretty skinny guy, so I prefer 20 guage. Though its been a while since I shot a 12 so I might try again soon.
 

ZVP

New member
I have both gauges and there are some considerations to think about.
The 12ga has the largest following and the largest proliferation of loads available at stores. You can even get Buckshot at WalMart!
The 12 has the most power because of the larger shot loads.
the 12ga is the most availableshotgun ammo at most stores.
The 20 ga shoots easier far as recoil goes and it comes on smaller frames which makes handling easier.
The shot loads are lighter and recoil is lower. The range is just about the same when hunting with it. It makes for a fine field gun and carries easier due to the overall size.
For HD, you can find more 12 ga ammo more readilly than you can 20 ga Buckshot. In fact N MY AREA 20GA HD loads are near impossible to find! I have #4 Phesant loads ans some slugs is all. For the 12ga, I have found everything I wanted locally.
First you must decide what preformance you want and then chooseGauges accordinglly. Try an ammo search first and find out how it is for your area. You might be stuck with Net orders as I am.
Frankilly for every purpose I use a shotgun for except HD, the 20 is best for my uses. The ammo thing made me buy a 12ga Pump for the house. OK so I have 2 shotguns now. Both bought used so costs were reasonable.
HTH,
BPDave
 

hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Glad you are happy with the gun you chose...

But I have to clear up a few things ZVP said...

The 12ga has the largest following and the largest proliferation of loads available at stores. You can even get Buckshot at WalMart!
This is entirely true...

The 12 has the most power because of the larger shot loads.
Not true at all... given the same feet per second or "dram eq." both rounds have the exact same "power"...

The 20 ga shoots easier far as recoil goes and it comes on smaller frames which makes handling easier. The shot loads are lighter and recoil is lower.
As for recoil, the lighter frame and barrel can negate the reduced recoil potential of the 20 gauge with a reduced payload... Basically you can end up with the same or more "felt" recoil from a light 20 gauge gun compared to a 12 gauge gun being heavier... But style of gun being equal, I prefer to tote a 20 over a bigger, heavier 12 gauge gun...

The range is just about the same when hunting with it. It makes for a fine field gun and carries easier due to the overall size.
Actually we do consider the range to be "reduced" a bit with a 20 compared to a 12 due to the smaller payload causing unacceptable pattern density in the same range that the larger 12 gauge payload is still looking acceptable on the pattern board...

Brent
 

BigD_in_FL

Moderator
The 20 will go as far as a 12, even with its 7/8 or 1oz load (especially if the 12 is shooting the same size payload); you may need one choke constriction tighter when comparing a smaller 20 payload to a larger 12, but there really isnt any upland scenario where the 20 is at any major disadvantage.

As to recoil, the comment about a 20 having less is patently FALSE unless you are shooting 20 gauge level loads from a gun that weighs as much as the 12. With typical 20s being a pound or more lighter, recoil (both actual and perceived) can actually be GREATER.

The lightest actual recoil is obtained by using the heaviest gun possible with the lightest load that will work the gun - that is Newton

The lightest perceived recoil (aka "kick") is obtained by having the gun FIT perfectly to the shooter - this is individual
 
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