10mm or ?? for wolves and lions?

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brianidaho

New member
I live in rural North Idaho. A few years ago some really bright guys in the federal government elected to plant Canadian Timber Wolves in North Idaho. Well, they recently made it to our neighborhood. We had a deer killed 75 yards from our house and our neighbor had 2 killed within 30 yards of his. So, it's time to step up from my 9mm Shield daily carry gun for our time outside around the house.

I also backcountry motorcycle and ATV in the mountains around here, and regularly camp in the backcountry. I usually carry my .45 Springfield. It's a little "light" for bears and I'd also not complain about a bit more magazine capacity. And honestly, it's a bit nice to bang around with in the backcountry on a bike.

So...I'm considering another handgun for a "woods gun". I want something light enough to carry (open) regularly. I had a Redhawk...that's out. I'd also like significant magazine capacity, given that wolves, should they be a problem, are pack animals. Which leans me towards a semi-auto. And of course I want enough caliber to get the job done, on either wolves, lion...or possibly bear. I do spend some time in Grizzly country, but far more in blackie land, especially camping. I suppose I should be concerned about moose too, was charged by one once.

The first thoughts that come to mine are the 10mm in either the Glock or the EAA Witness. Anyone own these or have thoughts about one vs the other? I own a Witness .40 steel, I'm kind of leaning towards the Witness Polymer for carry Also, how about the .357 Sig? I don't know a lot about it, but when it was introduced I seem to recall the hype saying that it was similar to a .357 mag in performance.

As far as comfort and shootability, I really like the M&P line. The Shield fits me really well and I shoot well (by my standards) with it. I'd really like to see the full size M&P in a 10.

Any thoughts or input are appreciated.
 
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DATL

New member
Well if you want moar capacity I suppose those big bore revolvers are out. I think you're looking in the right direction with the 10mm. When i was doing some hiking in areas with black bears my first instinct was to take one of my .45's. I was then told by some local seasoned hunters the .45 was an aweful choice due to the slow bullet/ lack of penetration with that round. i was pointed in the direction of the 10mm. I know we are talking wolves though not bears, but still... Personally I would go with the Glock. I am no Glock fanboy i only have one of those. I just trust my Glock more than any of my other handguns some of which cost 2-3 times more. With that being said if there were wolves running around killing things in MY yard I would be sure to have a shotty and/or rifle around the house!
 
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silvrjeepr

New member
IMO pistol rounds for bear country would be 44 mag minimum. A rifle and bear spray would be strongly preferred though.

Any wolf over 150lbs would also be 44 mag territory.

The 10mm should reliably handle everything up those animals stated above.

This is not law or even proven theory. It's just my personal preference. I tend to lean towards butt preservation these days.
 
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scrubcedar

New member
If I could I'd ditch the Idea of a pistol. Shotguns are wonderful close in stop the predator weapons. A .44 magnum lever action (I think Henry's Big Boy holds 11 rounds) would be second.
If you have to go with a Hi Cap pistol 10mm may be your only choice.
One of the Tokarevs in 7.62x25 would be a weapon you could beat on without worries for cheap with a cartridge known for it's penetration but I'd worry about the fact that the round only makes small holes.
I've spent more time than I care to think about driving on Idaho back roads. I had 200+ mile commute at one point. I've stopped and looked at up close a roadkill wolf, I was in Idaho at the time.
I was in awe at how big it was. Realize what size a lean, muscular,dog would have to be to weigh 150lbs. Trying to stop that coming at me with a pistol would not be my idea of entertainment. Keep in mind my idea of cougar protection is my Single Six with .22 magnums in it.

All that being said, have the wolves attacked any humans up there yet? If you're just trying to protect yourself none of this may be needed.

If you're worried about your livestock, I can certainly see the need. I've still got a lot of friends up Idaho way, and they seem to feel the wolves have realized domestic animals make easy meals.
 
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armsmaster270

New member
If I remember right, Jay C. Bruce CA State cougar killer (Bounty Hunter) used a 38-40 which equates to a 40S&W. Not my first choice though.
 
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bigghoss

New member
A good proper 10mm load should do well against a wolf or cougar. A heavy hard-cast bullet should work on a black bear. For grizzly, might as well just eat a bullet yourself.
 
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Josh17

New member
10mm. A Glock, 10mm, is arguably *one* of the most powerful handgun you can own, due to the fact you get 15 rounds of 10mm, follow up shots as easier then heavier loads, and you get more rounds (15) A fully loaded 10mm Glock (or EAA) overpowers any 5 or 6 shot revolver. If you shot a target 6 times with .44 mag from a revolver VS shooting it 15 times with the 10mm, the 10mm would obviously do massively more damage due to the extra shots. There is even some military that carries the 10mm Glock as a sidearm.... In polar bear territory!

5 to 6 shots of .44 magnum doesn't equal as much firepower as 15 shots of 10mm.
So a 10mm would be the best choice, without a doubt. If you come across multiple wolves, you sure don't want only 5-6 rounds! And a 10mm is fully capable of taking out wolves, plus you'll have 3 times the rounds as a 5 shot revolver.
 
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shafter

New member
I would say your 9mm is probably adequate to take care of any wolves or lions you may encounter. If it was me I'd be carrying a 357 magnum Smith and Wesson or Ruger.

I can't speak for wolves and lions but they can't be any harder to drop than a black bear and I dropped one of those with a 22 handgun. . .that being said I've seen 357's glance off a bears face.
 
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Skans

Active member
10mm. A Glock, 10mm, is arguably the most powerful handgun you can own. 5 or 6 shots of .44 mag is definitely not as good as 15 rounds of 10mm.
Click to expand...

I have a Desert Eagle .44 magnum with 10 round magazine. I think that'll beat a 10mm glock. And, it can be used as a boat anchor.:D

Seriously, I'd vote for a 10mm Glock for an outdoor handgun in the conditions described.
 
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jmortimer

Moderator
"10mm, is arguably the most powerful handgun you can own"

No, but it is a good choice for the O/P. It is about the same as a .357 in a 4" revolver. On the handgun food chain it is no where near the top.
 
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jmr40

New member
001-11.jpg


I have G-20 in 10mm and a 3" S&W 629 in 44 mag. The G-20 is 1" shorter, weighs 3/4 lb less and holds 2 1/2 X more ammo.

While 44mag performance looks impressive in ballistics charts, those numbers come from 8" test barrels. Start shooting those same loads from 3"-4" barrels and they don't look nearly so impressive.

Real numbers, with these guns shot over my chronograph show the 10mm shooting 200 gr hardcast loads from Double Tap @ 1315 fps. The 3" 629 shoots 240 gr bullets @1150 fps. Real world performance from the 10mm is closer to magnum revolver performance than most guys realise. From a 6" or longer barrel I could get 1400-1500 fps from the 44, but I'll carry a carbine before I'll carry a handgun that large.
 
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Dashunde

New member
The fully loaded Glock 20 is about the same size and weight as a loaded 1911, but its thicker.
Overall the 20 would be hard to beat for your purposes.
 
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jmortimer

Moderator
Since the 10mm is less gun than a 4" .357, why even go to the .44 Mag comparison. Here is 4" .44 mag

44 MAG. - 225 gr. Barnes XPB
1399 fps -- S&W MT Gun, 4 inch barrel

.41 Magnum Ammo - 230 gr. Keith
4" S&W Mountain Gun - 1370 fps
 
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The_Shadow

New member
I choose 10mm for all the right reasons! I handload so I know what I get in terms of ballistic performance...those that don't handload there is Underwood Ammo which is great in the 10mm high performance...:D
 
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The_Shadow

New member
P.S. It would be nice if Springfield made an XD 10mm or if S&W made the M&P 10mm or if any other companies produce newer non-1911 type 10mm.
There are plenty 1911 10mm's out there, just not enough mag capacity for the weight. This is where Glock shines...polymer frame and extra rounds capacity!:cool:
 
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jmortimer

Moderator
" It would be nice if Springfield made an XD 10mm"

They make a .45 ACP which is perfect for .460 Rowland conversion.
If you really want lower level revolver magnum power, do the .460 Rowland conversion, and you are getting around 1,000 ft lbs with a big bullet. Then you are getting there. For the O/P the 10mm sounds fine as he does not need serious power, 750 ft lbs would work fine.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Never being in this situation, this will not stop me from contributing.

I recall that the Danes and Norwegians issued Glock 20s with the extended barrel and some heavy 10 mm load as a backup for bear situations. Of course, they carried long arms.
 
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