10mm and Accurate No. 7

[Swifty Morgan]

I have not reloaded in quite some time, and I'm about to start up with 10mm. I use 180-grain Speer Gold Dots.

I don't have notes made from the last reloading session, so I am trying to piece it together from the evidence. I recall that I was getting 1200 fps or so from a Glock 29, which has a short barrel. Based on the powder I currently have, it looks like I was using Accurate No. 7.

Wondering if anyone here has any trustworthy data to help me re-create this load. I guess I could always empty some cartridges and weigh the powder.

I want a hot load. It's for defensive purposes.

 

[GarrettJ]

You can always check the data straight from Accurate Arms (pg. 28). Gold Dots are plated, so I would use the data for the plated Rainier bullet.

Their data for AA#7 tops out at just under 1200 fps for a 180 gr. bullet, but they used a 5” barrel. I never tried #7 in it, but when I had a G29, it would usually push the same load around 100 fps slower than my 5” Delta Elite would.

So it might be worth a try, but you may come up a little short of your 1200 fps goal.

In 10mm, I’ve achieved best velocities using Longshot followed by Blue Dot. But that was from 5” and 6.5” barrels.

 

[Mike / Tx]

I've used the GD in my 10mm since it was introduced. The 180gr has been my go to hunting bullet. My first 10mm was the IAI Javelina with a 7" barrel and it is pure hog poison.

I also settled on the Accurate powders for it and after picking up the G40 see no reason to change. I personally found that AA5 was tops with 135-150gr, AA7 for 150-175gr and AA9 for everything above. Number 9 gives good velocities with a touch less pressure than some of the other powders. My load gets me just over 1300fps from my longer barrels. I highly recommend working up with whichever you choose and possibly look into aftermarket guide rod and possibly a heavier spring assembly. You may or may not feel the need but it does help to considerably improve on muzzle rise and battering your slide and frame. Best part is it isn't a huge investment for the added performance.

Good luck and post up your results.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Thanks for the help. I decided to pick up some Blue Dot. Probably bought the last two pounds in existence.

 

[RickB]

Unless you're defending against large, four-legged critters, you really don't want a hot load.
.40 S&W passes all of the FBI tests that everyone treats as gospel, so no reason to load much or any above that.
200@1000fps was the original spec for the 10mm cartridge, and that's still a great spec for a self-defense round.

180gr plated truncated cone, from Colt Delta Elite:
10.4 #7 1079fps
11.0 #7 1109fps
12.0 #7 1163fps

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Thanks for the reply and data. I don't believe what you say about weak loads is correct, so I want decent velocity. I believe it will perform better.

I can't imagine owning a 10mm and using it to shoot a detuned load created for female FBI agents. It's like putting .38 Special in a .357. If you don't shoot .357 loads, how can you be a .357 shooter? It's like driving a Corvette with a Smart Car engine.

 

[TruthTellers]

The problem with a lot of the hollow points is they're built for .40 S&W velocities, so you if you crank them up to 1200-1300 fps, you're going to have bullets fall apart and penetration will suffer.

For 10mm I have seen the 200 grain JHP's work very well in gel at high velocities. Hornady makes a 200 grain XTP for the .40 caliber, seems purpose built for 10mm. Something you may want to consider.

 

[Elkins45]

The old Accurate reloading pamphlet I picked up sometime in the 90’s lists a load of AA#9 that allegedly takes a 200 grain bullet to 1200 fps. I don’t think they publish the same load anymore, and I’ve been told current AA9 isn’t quite as slow as the version that the older load was developed with.

 

[GarrettJ]

Just a follow-up for what it's worth. I shot some loads over the chronograph today, using AA#7 and a 155 XTP. Working up to near top-end published loads, I was able to get up to 1430 fps from a 6.5" revolver.

Cutting your barrel roughly in half with the little G29, you very well could get into the 1200 fps range. Work up and watch pressure signs.

Be sure to let us know how it works out.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I've got it.

Please do your own load work up and do not rely on anybody else's - including mine. That said, here's my data using exactly the components you mentioned, testing in exactly the gun. Well, two guns actually. The Glock 29 and the Glock 20 . . .

AA#7, Speer 180gn GDHP's, Starline brass, CCI 300 primers. OAL = 1.255" (Speer manual calls for 1.250".) All are 10-round samples, with the chronograph at 4 yards.

11.2gn
1142 f/s G29
1173 f/s G20

11.4gn
1155 f/s G29
1184 f/s G20

11.6gn
1165 f/s G29
1206 f/s G20

11.7gn
1193 f/s G29
1226 f/s G20

11.8gn
1188 f/s G29
1230 f/s G20

11.8gn (second test at this charge weight)
1191 f/s G29
1241 f/s G20

11.9gn
1215 f/s G29
1243 f/s G20

12.0gn (Speer #14 published maximum)
1222 f/s G29
1268 f/s G20

I did not test beyond 12.0 grains. I really like AA#7 pushing 180's in the 10mm Auto. Many will recommend AA#9; and I'm sure it will deliver slightly higher velocities. But will do so with much more boom and recoil. I'd rather use AA#7 - it may have slightly less velocity; but it's much better handling. An important characteristic with defense ammo to get back on target quickly.

 

[RickB]

For 10mm I have seen the 200 grain JHP's work very well in gel at high velocities. Hornady makes a 200 grain XTP for the .40 caliber, seems purpose built for 10mm. Something you may want to consider.

The Nosler 135 JHP is a 35yo bullet intended for 10mm. I've loaded it over 1400fps, but it still just poked a little round hole in the cardboard target.

 

[TruthTellers]

The Nosler 135 JHP is a 35yo bullet intended for 10mm. I've loaded it over 1400fps, but it still just poked a little round hole in the cardboard target.

Well, cardboard is not a life form that can threaten the OP and I don't think a 135 grain bullet with a diameter of .40 is a good choice for self defense due to penetration issues.

155 is the most practical lowest weight bullet for the caliber.

 

[GarrettJ]

...I don't think a 135 grain bullet with a diameter of .40 is a good choice for self defense due to penetration issues.

155 is the most practical lowest weight bullet for the caliber.

Just for the sake of argument, for decades the preeminent “man stopper” was a .357 Mag with a 125 gr. JHP. Now all of the sudden, increasing bullet diameter by .015” and pushing it slightly faster make it a poor choice?

 

[TruthTellers]

Just for the sake of argument, for decades the preeminent “man stopper” was a .357 Mag with a 125 gr. JHP. Now all of the sudden, increasing bullet diameter by .015” and pushing it slightly faster make it a poor choice?

It doesn't make it a better choice.

 

[Unclenick]

Thanks for the reply and data. I don't believe what you say about weak loads is correct, so I want decent velocity. I believe it will perform better.

That's fine, as long as you understand your belief is assuming you make an appropriate bullet choice. 830 fps has proven "decent" in 45 Auto for many decades, now. Something that shoots the FMJ's, RN or TC, faster than that is almost always at a terminal performance advantage, but expanding bullets designed to perform well at 830 fps can disintegrate on impact at 40 S&W velocities. So do yourself a favor and call the bullet maker before you pick something. They can all give you the bullet's design impact velocity range and you want to stay within it by a reasonable margin.

Obviously, as Jeff Cooper told us, you only go for as much power as you can control. So if you find the hotter load slows down achieving 8" hits at 7 yards, you want to rethink the value of the higher power, as shot placement matters most.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Thanks for the effort, but we are outside the scope of my question.

 

[agtman]

* * * 200 @ 1000fps was the original spec for the 10mm cartridge, and that's still a great spec for a self-defense round.

Wrong.

"200gns @ 1000fps" was Jeff Cooper's desired minimum impact velocity at 50-yds.

A muzzle velocity of 1200fps pretty much gets you there.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I had a lot of problems getting this load to work, and it turned out my scale was no good. Today I loaded 12.0 grains of No.7 over Winchester primers, and I got an average velocity of 1237 for 6 rounds from a Glock 29. This will do fine.

Now I'm wondering what to do with the two pounds of Blue Dot I bought.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Your 12.0 grains yielding 1237 jives with my results (post #10).

Now I'm wondering what to do with the two pounds of Blue Dot I bought.

Gotta magnum revolver? Works great for not-quite-full-throttle magnum rounds - especially with lighter slugs.

Gotta 12-gauge shotgun? Blue Dot is actually a shotgun propellant.

To get back on track, it should work well with 180's in 10mm - if you feel like doing another workup.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

It works nicely in 10mm target ammo. I do have some .357 guns.