1000+ rounds through my 51 Navy Colt

[Remington kid]

Today I opened my 5Th. #1 canister of Pyrodex "P". So I'm figureing #4 shot up and a pound of BP = 7000gr. and I was loading 22gr. to 25gr. in my 51 Navy .36 with a .380 ball. That works out to 280 shots per canister or there abouts.
Most of you know that I have been shooting this gun without a wad, lube pill or lube over the ball. Never had one chain fire yet and it takes no longer to clean the bore than it did using lube, wad or pill.The only draw back to shooting so much is a hole in my thumb from pulling back the hammer so much OUCH!!!
This Colt has proved itself to be very accurate after reducing the trigger pull, hammer spring and some stoning on all the parts.
I was an avid Goex 3 f user but after my supplier closed down I switched to Pyrodex P as was suggested by Mike Cumpston (Mec) on here. This powder is really great and I had no problems at all with it.
As another experiment with this Pyrodex P I loaded one of my Remington .44 with 40 gr. a few days after Christmas and today I shot it and all six cylinders fired perfectly.
On a side note I did have to replace one bolt spring and one hand spring in the Colt already. The bolt spring went first at around 400 rounds(just guessing here) and the hand spring went at about 800 rounds.
All in all this Colt is a pleasure to shoot and it feels good in the hand but my Remington's will always be my first choice if it came down to a shoot out with a gunslinger in town.
When I bought this Navy Colt I also bought a Lee #10 casting pot with the spout, .380 double cavity mold and a .454 double cavity mold. Needless to say the molds and the pot have paid for themselves by now. Got to go get a band aid for my thumb, Mike

 

[Easy E]

I'm just starting out with a '51 and I love it already. Much nicer than my 1860. I've been very pleased with the accuracy of this pistol using .375 balls over 18 grains of an old jar of cleanshot FFg I'm trying to use up. Once it's gone I'll be using GOEX FFFg. (A local hardware store carries it, go figure)

A few questions for you Remington. Your LEE mold, is it ball or conical? If conical, how do you like them? Do they seat well? Accurate? Thanks.

 

[mec]

I'd call that excellent spring life-considering how easy they are to replace. I can recall having bolt springs let go with great regularity a few years ago.

I noticed that a guy on the Muzzleloader board got a new Lemat loaded it up and had a chain fire that removed the loading lever. He didn't use over lube or under wad (though he had been thinking about seating a wonder wad on top of the ball) and this has set off a debate as to whether the multiple discharge proceded from the front of the cylinder or the back.

From the examples I've had, It would seem hard to find a loose ball for the lemat chambers. They are typical tight Pietta bores and generally put a substantial swage on even a .451 ball.

One more good point in favor of the colts and remingtons. They located them in such a way that they will not depart with the first strong wind.

 

[Remington kid]

Mec, One thing I have always done and not really sure why other than a man much wiser than I told me to do it, is to chamfer the mouth of the cylinders so you do not shave off a lot of lead. Apparently the reason for it is obvious and it seems to work. My balls are definitely tight!
After all this scientific testing I have done over the past week's with no lube I am convinced that the biggest cause of chain fires stems from ill fitting projectiles or caps. I don't believe you could cause a chain fire from my Colt or Remington if you used a blow torch. There is no way a spark or flame is getting around these balls.
The reason I was a little disappointed over the springs breaking in my Colt is that I never had to replace one spring in my two Remington's in all these years. I have an idea in my head for replacing the Bolt spring on these Colts. I'll let you know if it works or not.
Mec, I'm really thinking about staying with this Pyrodex "P" for these Revolvers. It's really been working great and with the ballistics and accuracy I'm getting I see no reason to fight the system for Goex or Swiss. Thanks for suggesting it to me, Mike

 

[Remington kid]

Easy E, My molds are for the ball but I had a friend send me about 50 of the .44. 454 200g. conicals and they are really great! If you load a Remington with .40 of Goex and one of the conicals you will swear your shooting a .44 magnum As for fit they are perfect and easy to load because the base is tapered and they have two lube rings around them also.
My next molds will be conicals for my .44 and my Colt .36 . The .36 will be for a .380, I like the tighter fitting balls and conicals.
Your lucky to have a powder supplier like your local hardware store. I'm jealous!!! Mike

 

[Steve499]

Mike, let me know about your bolt spring idea if it works. I've already replaced one on my Colt replica and I'm not sure if the replacement is exerting as much upward pressure on the bolt as the old one was. If I cock the hammer forcefully, about half the time the cylinder will apparently be rotating too fast for the bolt to engage the cuts in the cylinder and the chamber will stop just past the firing position. I had no problems like that until the original spring broke so I can only think the new spring is the culprit. The bolt is being released in the lead of the cylinder locking cuts as far as I can tell by the wear pattern so it should lock up if the spring is working as it should, right?

Everything works just fine until I cock it while flipping it forward to clear the fired cap fragments. That action makes cocking a little bit faster and speeds up the cylinder rotation.

Steve

 

[Remington kid]

Steve, Take the bolt spring from your 58 Remington and try it. It may be a hair long on the trigger side but just check it.My Rem works great in my Colt and it's a heavy duty spring compared to the stock colt.
I'm going to play with this spring idea I have in the AM and I'll let you know what I find out. Mike

PS It sounds to me like there is a problem with the new spring for sure. Maybe to much tension (Strength)??

 

[Steve499]

That spring change would be good to try except my Colt is a small framed pocket size and has a considerably smaller spring. I think if the spring was stronger, maybe it would push the bolt up into the locking cut more positively. I have an extra Remington spring so maybe I will look at it to see if I could cut it down or something. Mec mentions piano wire springs from Heinie in his book but I looked at their website and couldn't find anything like that offered.

I haven't shot mine nearly as much as you have yours but I sit around messing with it all the time, cocking it and letting the hammer down so the springs get to be high mileage pretty fast.

Steve

 

[Remington kid]

Steve, I did see the wire springs somewhere on the net but the price was ridiculous. If I can remember who has them I'll let you know. Maybe Mec will get back on here or you could email him. Mike

 

[Remington kid]

Steve, Found it! It's on Brownells site under Heinie springs.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=6875

 

[Steve499]

Thanks, Mike. I'll order some. Looks like one size fits all so it may not fix the pocket navy but my Remington will be getting one!
Thanks again,

Steve

 

[mec]

I believe I got mine through Brownelles or maybe Numrich. They usually do not break ( thought I have seen one in a Freedom Arms that did) and often lighten the trigger pull.

 

[Remington kid]

Mec, The springs I found on the Brownell's site are for Uberti I believe. Do you know if they will fit my 51 Navy Pietta? I'm going to play with making some springs today but if they don't work out I would buy one of these. Thanks, Mike

 

[mec]

The Colt type springs are usually pretty generic as long as you are talking full sized guns. The navy's are the same as the Single Action Army. My wire spring was non- specific as to gun. I put it into an unmarked mystery navy and now it's in my USFA Pre-war.

Been meaning to ask if the hand you replaced in your PIettaa took much fitting.

 

[Remington kid]

Thanks for the info Mec. Yes, it was a strange happening for me when I replaced the hand and spring on my Navy. The cylinder worked grate and smooth but when I placed the hammer in the safe spot you could not pull the hammer back without raising the hammer slightly and starting the cylinder turn by hand. It would lock up solid in the safe zone. If I let the hammer down on the nipple it would work perfectly and very smooth.
After playing with it for about 30 minutes I found that the hand was to high...Not to long. Right where the hand starts to curve along the back was high and catching on the top of the frame where it comes through the slot to engage the cylinder.Took a file and removed some of the metal so it would clear and now it's fine.
One thing about the Pietta hands is that they are a stamped part and they do need some good stoning to make them run smooth without catching on anything.Also there always seems to be a bur or sharp edge right on the end that engages the cylinder. File and sand that area as well just enough to remove the bur.
I did repair the other one with a bobbie pin spring but haven't tried it yet. Should work in a pinch with no trouble.

 

[mec]

I remember that now. I had the same problem with locking up from the safety peg with my uberti 61 and resolved it without really understanding how. Now I know. I also have a repaired hand with flat curling bobbie pin. It is a spare but I believe will work fine as I used some fancy automotive glue to fasten it into the slot.

I ordered a scizzor mould from dixie that was reported to be a 140 grain .36 bullet. This would have been neat as the loads and cartridges that survive from the 19th century used bullets of about that weight. No joy though. The bullets weigh 100 grains when cast from pure lead and are the same configuration as the ones that drop from the brass decorator molds. They do seem to be more optimally sized than those from the brass moulds. I've gotten good accuracy from their .44 /180 grain scizzor moulded bullets and wonder if these will work as well.

 

[Remington kid]

Mec, If you can let me know how that mold works out, I just got into casting when I bought this Colt Navy a few day's after Christmas and just have the double cavity .380 ball and the double cavity for the .454 ball.
I do want to get the Lee 200 gr conical mold for the .454. A friend sent me about 50 or so to try in my Remington's and I want to try them on Deer this fall. Don't really need conicals for Rabbit's, Grouse, Snakes, fox and Yotes for my .36 but I would like to try the ones you are talking about just to see how they shoot.

 

[mec]

The .44 types are satisfyingly accurate I'll see about the 36s. The lee bullets are closer to the weight of the civil war era bullets they used for cartridges- even look like some of them.

Also got a look at a pietta .44 "Navy" today. Nice color case and very smooth. Appears to have a vestigial crown. You know, if they had called this an army model or a transitional army, it might be more acceptable as an accurate replica. Colt actually made a few armies with the early loading lever and navy sized grips.

 

[Remington kid]

Mec, Before I bought my Colt I did a lot of research on it and that was one of the reasons for your book. After reading so much on them andlooking at many pictures of the originals it's easy to see why some people really get confused about what Revolver they really have. So many of them were altered after the fact and many were altered at the factory while they were working out bugs in them or just trying something new. Even the sights were changed at times.
I know that you are aware of all this and know much more than I ever will know about the subject but it sure has me scratching my head at times,Lol.
Do you think that gun was altered in any way from what was the original from Pietta? I have seen pics of these Pietta .44 Navy's but never got to hold one yet, Mike

 

[mec]

It was new- box stock. Rebated frame like an army. Loading lever like a 60 army. RL Wilsons book has pictures of one with a navy type- loading lever- shaped a bit different than the navy but not of the creeping type. the only one's Ive handled before have been the brass framed jobbies. They've been around for a long time.