$1,000+ Worth of Improvement ?

amprecon

New member
As I've been considering optics for my AK and M1A and even considered trading off rifles to get an "optic ready" rifle, I've found the prices of the mounts and good optics to be ridiculously high and would take a pounding on trading out.
I feel magnified optics would allow one to get the most out of the .308's abilities at range.
So, I'm looking for opinions to see if it's worth it to spend the $1,000+, are you getting that much of an improvement for that amount of money?
 

Rembrandt

New member
Is it worth the money?...only you will know for sure. I'm reminded of a few sayings....


"Money buys Speed"
"Money buys Championships"
"Money buys Accuracy"
 

surveyor

New member
my $$$$ glass is on my most accurate bolt gun, where it does the most benefit..and yes I like it and would do it again.

red dot on the AK..

reason why is simple.. AK is 3-4 MOA, bolt gun is 1/2 MOA..

your milage may vary..
 

billindenver

New member
I have a $1200 leupold on my varmint AR, and a $200 nikon buckmaster on my Tikka 30-06. I've shot both back to back dozens of times, right up until absolute dark...and the Nikon is every bit as good as the Leupold despite the fact that the Leupold is a 56mm objective and the nikon is a 40. You can get a very good scope for $200 in the Nikons. If you are near denver you are welcome to come to the range and compare a $1200 Leupold to a $200 Nikon yourself. My friends have, and they come to the same conclusion...Nikon knows optics. I like the leupold varmint reticle a lot...but would never spend that kind of money on a scope again. I had to do it once, just to see if all the hype is true....it is not.

YMMV
 

Smokey Joe

New member
Take your pick...

of Accurate, Strong, Cheap. According to a range officer of my acquaintance, you can have any 2 of these. Never all 3.
 

A/C Guy

New member
I have a $1200 leupold on my varmint AR, and a $200 nikon buckmaster on my Tikka 30-06. I've shot both back to back dozens of times, right up until absolute dark...and the Nikon is every bit as good as the Leupold despite the fact that the Leupold is a 56mm objective and the nikon is a 40
I personally don't think the Leupold scopes are worth their selling price. I do know that any $1200 Swarovski or Ziess will blow away any Nikon made at any price. I own 2 Nikon Monarch Gold scopes (for my sons' rifles) and Swarovski scopes for my rifles. There is no comparison. Nikon does make very nice glass, just not as great as Swarovski. You get what you pay for with optics.

Are the Swarovski scopes worth $1000 plus? Most buyers of Swarovski are repeat loyal customers; for a very good reason. Remember that Swarovski scopes do last a lifetime. They will outlast your rifles. When you sell or trade your rifle, keep the optics and put it on the next rifle. 10 year old Swarovski and Ziess optics usually sell for more than they originally cost. You will eventually get your money back from a quality scope. Cheap scopes aren't worth a nickel when they are a year old.
 

Dearhunter61

New member
A/C Guy

You said it perfectly!

I really do not understand how people can compare some of the cheaper models of scopes to the high end ones and make the claim the cheaper ones are as good. Based on my experience the higher end scopes are noticeably better. I am not a big fan of Leupold's either simply because I think they are over priced. I own one and it does not compare to the 5 different Zeiss' I own. The difference for me is the clarity of the glass and the ability to see a lot latter in the evening.

Perhaps those that claim there is no difference simply can not see the difference? I wonder if this is not like some peoples ability to hear music/sound better than others? I know people who actually here music and they know the notes etc as well as being able to hear different instruments playing when all I know is whether I like the music...I can not hear some of the different instruments...nor can I tell what notes are being played. I was just wondering here because the difference I see through these scopes is huge and I have never understood those that claim there is no difference.
 

billindenver

New member
There are two facts that I am certain of when it comes to scopes, and firearms for that matter.

1. Any man who pays a lot of money for something will always, without fail, say that you get what you pay for and defend his purchase. This is human nature, as no man has ever in the history of mankind admitted he paid money for a name and didn't get any better product.

2. Leupold is over rated.


I like my $1100 Leupold, and I defended it as rabidly as the next guy...until I started shooting it back to back with Nikon and Burris.....at DARK. I do like the varmint reticle a lot...but optically it is nothing special. Zeiss and Swarovski I can't comment on...but it is dark enough that I can't see the 500 yard target with my naked eye and the Nikon still groups nicely. I'm not saying the Z and S are not better scopes....but the post asked if they are $1000 better and to that I have to say only if it is a point of pride for you to own one. Hitting a target at dark....you can do that with a lot less expensive scope. I didn't believe it either, until I compared them back to back multiple times. Put it this way, I can hit a deer or elk a whole lot after legal shooting time and when it is dark enough that I need a flashlight to walk out...with a $200 Nikon. Optics mounted on a rifle do not use some sort of voodoo to work. Nikon has been making optics for a very long time, they make far more optics than most scope companies, they make optics for people who make their livings with optics and they have gotten pretty good at it. Try one.
 

Jason280

New member
I've always contended that Leupold scopes are overrated. I've owned quite a few of them over the years, and I have never felt that they were worth the asking price. Simply stated, there are a number of comparable scopes that are just as good for less money. I think Bill hit the nail on the head with his comments. Growing up, I believed Leupold was the best because it was on the cover of all the magazines. However, once I got old enough and a little coin in my pocket, I found out that it wasn't necessarily true. Once I was able to actually try different scopes on the range and in the field, I found that the Leupold wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I have shot VXIII's on the bench next to Burris, Nikon, Sightron, Bushnell Elites, and Cabelas Alaskan Guide scopes, and have found the Leupy to be no brighter or clearer. In fact, I have found that the Leupold lags behind these scopes in terms of optical sharpness and clarity, especially at dusk to dark. I would have never believed it, especially considering the VXIII is twice as expensive as some of the other scopes I have shot it against. But, I have seen it with my own eyes on more than one occasion (and have had other shooters agree). Does that mean Leupold is a bad scope? Not at all. One of my favorite deer guns wears an M8 6x42. But the simple fact is, there are better values. Its even more pronounced at the Rifleman and VX1 level of scopes, which are jokes.

I will say this, though. It's ultimately up to the shooter to find what they like best. I've shot and hunted with guys who are content with Tasco's and the like, while I've shot with others who consistently spend more on their optics than the rifles they are mounted on. Personally, my most expensive optic is a Trijicon ACOG, which cost close to $900 when I bought it. My cheapest? Probably a $75 Simmons on a .22 rifle. Each serves their purpose, and they both get the job done.

Are expensive optics worth it? Yes and no, and it's up to you to decide.
 

Dearhunter61

New member
I might agree that most people would say as much...but

not in this case and to make that blanket statement is a little much. I have owned and do own Burris, Leupold, Zeiss Conquest, Redfield, Weaver, Tasco and more and I would love to pay $200 and get the same quality of optics that I get from the Zeiss Conquest. BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN any of the cheaper scopes I have named above that stand up to the Zeiss. This is not about ego nor am I simply trying to justify spending more on glass. IT IS SIMPLY THAT THE ZEISS IS BETTER BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE and if and when I buy another deer rifle I will purchase another Zeiss Conquest or perhaps a Swarovski...not because I want to BRAG about it or that I want to spend more money or just....and on and on and on...It is simply my experience says they are better.

If you are happy with what you own and it accomplishes what you want then great. At the end of the day that is what matters.
 

skeeter1

New member
FWIW...

I've got a Weatherby MKII scope on the Marlin 39 that I think I paid $40 for in 1971. Works great.

I've got a cheapy Tasco 3-9X on the Marlin 1894C. Works just fine, and that rifle has some serious recoil.

The Crosman CO2 rifle (no recoil there) wears a BSA red-dot. Seems to be doing just fine after a year.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but at this point in time, it's going to be a long cold day before I blow a grand on a Leupold.
 

Dearhunter61

New member
A cold Day in ....

Skeeter,

I agree with you...before I spend a grand on a Leupold it will be a cold day in h---. Now spending a grand on quality optics...well I will do that on my next purchase for a new deer hunting rifle. :D
 

Swampghost

New member
Another thing to remember is that many people (me included) just don't have an extra $1K to go blow on a rifle scope.

I'm still in the hole from hurricanes Francis, Jeanne and Wilma. Add to that my wife's breast cancer and 2 kids in college. If I spent $1K on glass and the wife found out, I'd be afraid to sleep!

Right now I can only make lateral moves. BTW, anybody interested in an 1873 Trapdoor? The season is coming up and I could use the cash.
 

A/C Guy

New member
Truer words ......

Another thing to remember is that many people (me included) just don't have an extra $1K to go blow on a rifle scope

That is so true.

Good luck with the cancer, hope your wife gets well.
 
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